"Hail Caesar, other rules, for the Dark Ages..." Topic

I've had a resurfaced interest in the dark ages again, and wrote a small blog post about shield walls and rules. Mostly Hail Caesar but some others as well as I continue to search for a great mass battle rule set. check it out why not?

link

Also some shots of the Norman Army so far..

-Stewart

Same issue for me – next try for me os Art du Guerre

You might want to look at Dux Bellorum, which is a Dark Age mass battle set from Osprey by Dan Mersey

I've heard good stuff about LADG. Might be worth a look.

As I say in the blog comments: I've played Dux Bellorum and it did not click for me. I found that the utility of using leadership points to cancel hits was so far above anything else you could do with them that it really wasn't a choice of what to do with them. I also did not likevall the uncontrolled charges. It makes it so you try to maneuver so that you get charged when it's bad for your opponent versus charging yourself. Which to me did not feel very much like dark age shield walls slowly closing in on each other.

Of course, just my 2 cents.

Dux Bellorum is designed for the Arthurian era, with shield wall available mainly as an option for some armies in the later part of the period (post-600AD).

On the question of the under-valuing of cancelled hits, the group I used to play DB with implemented a house rule whereby a player had to roll a D6 for each hit point he'd paid an LP to cancel and achieve a score of 4-6 to do so. We found that this change restored the balance of the LP system quite adequately.

I always thought there should be a third category of close-combat infantry to better represent loosely-formed warriors who probably weren't prone to uncontrolled charges, such as Picts and later Welsh. If I were to return to DB I'd modify the rules accordingly.

LADG or big battle DBA work pretty well for me. Fast resolution, lots of stands if I want them. Good feel for dark age battles with lots of troop types.

Take a look at Medieval Warfare by Terry Gore. He did a lot of research into the period, I think he did a doctors thesis on the leader ship aspects of the period. It was published by him before he sadly passed, but i think Foundry also published the rules.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm still looking for *my* favorite mass battle dark ages rules.

since starting this thread; I've since gotten a copy of LADG and to be honest I find it kinda hard to read. it's just not clicking. I think it assumes a familiarity with DBA mechanics which I do not have.

the search continues…

I have been using Advanced Impetus which works well for larger battles I feel.

cheers
Matt
Herce Salon de Guerre
Mayenne
France

Anybody tried "Hack in the Dark"?

Our 'go to' big battle set for Ancients is "To the Strongest". Don't see why it wouldn't work equally well for Dark Ages.

I would say, this quest is not limited to Dark ages but the rest of the medieval period as well. IMHO the Hack rules are fun but there is a "hack" that one can game the rules by. If you can break up your attack into smaller attacks you can inflict more harm then just one big unit strong attack.

Stew,

Two things about your dissatisfaction with Hail Caesar

1) You can always allow 1 movement for a failed order. In effect this makes the Drilled ability moot, but then you don't just stand around after a failed Order roll.

2) Maybe I read it wrong but how does having -1 to be hit and +1 to your Save roll make it easier to lose a combat? Just the first ability will produce a 16% drop in hits against your unit.

Hi Bowman,

for #1: I prefer the solution that I mention which is just make sure that each player has 2 divisions / commands. That way the odds of failing both on the initial roll are really low.

for #2, you are reading it wrong. When a unit 'closes ranks' It's not -1 to be hit but -1 to hit the OTHER guy. Which is why it is terrible.

However the dark ages supplement Shieldwall has a better version that I've yet to try out. it's one of the few things in that book worth while. I have a review of it here: TMP link

I'm hoping to have more games of glorious dark ages combat in this new year. my models have gone unused for a long time. : (

Stew are, have you thought of trying Warhammer Ancient Battles? Or War and Conquest by Rob Broom (who was involved in the development of the Warhammer Ancient Battles rules?

Hi Wymers.
I did play a couple of games of WaC and ultimately decided that I did not like the rule set. Some of it was because I learned that I prefer using elements for mass battles (versus individual removal) and also because I thought that in WaC skirmishers / loose order infantry were WAY too powerful. Units of 12-16 of slingers can totally decimate units of close order infantry in shield wall. Just seemed off to me. You don't hear of the Viking units armed with the dreaded slingshot.
So in the meantime HC continues to be my best fit for now. It's been awhile since I played even that so it deserves another go around. Overall I have tried:
War and Conquest
Age of Empires
Sword and Spear – which is alright, there a lot in there that is cool but it really grates on me that units have to charge individually
Dux Bellorum
Dux Britanariamamamam (or however you spell it).
LADG – this might be a fine game, but I can't get the rules around my head after reading it.
day of battle – might need to look at this one again.
I don't want to write out why each of these didn't fit for me, because it's all personal taste and preference, and I don't want to come off as overly critical or hard to please. I'm just a guy who hasn't found a mass battle ruleset that fits my preconceived notions of dark age combat.
I still have to try out To The Strongest, which I have.
In the future I am considering picking up Impetvs II or maybe Kings of War Historical.

Thanks for suggestion!