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"Would THIS Make A Better Star Wars Movie?" Topic


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1,414 hits since 19 May 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2018 6:16 p.m. PST

What say you? Or do you have a better suggestion?

Dan
PS. The last one felt like a comedy. They might as well embrace the change.
link

picture

Daithi the Black19 May 2018 6:44 p.m. PST

Gleefully stolen and shared via social media

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2018 9:44 p.m. PST

Time to put a stake through the heart of this franchise before it dies of self parody.

Dezmond20 May 2018 3:15 a.m. PST

Star Wars is already dead. Sadly the far left zombie wearing its flayed skin is going to be shambling around dropping limbs and grunting about how much it hates white men for the foreseeable future.

And sure. That undead rotting corpse has no dignity left so why not start doing crossovers with Mrs Brown's Boys?

..

X

.

I don't know what you mean about me being ‘bitter'.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 4:02 a.m. PST

Dezmond: "I don't know what you mean about me being ‘bitter'."

Well, I also had high hopes for the franchise, but I must have been in denial until a couple of films ago when I finally realized I wast wasting my time waiting for it to get better. It wasn't escapism for me.

Dan

28mm Fanatik20 May 2018 9:56 a.m. PST

'Solo: A Star Wars Story' will probably make a lot of money despite a boycott by a few grumpy TMP members.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 9:58 a.m. PST

Lol. I know a lot of non-members (male and female) who used to love Star Wars and say they are tired of the franchise and the direction it has taken.

But yes, it will make money because the franchise no longer focuses on the original fan base.

Dan

Dezmond20 May 2018 10:42 a.m. PST

I think they could have made more money if they hadn't decided to turn Star Wars in to the tip of the spear in the progressivists war against the white devil penises.

But money just isn't the main motivator of the ideologically driven.

And that makes them very poor masters to live under. A capitalist who sees no profit in messing with you will at least ignore you. A progressive will *never* just let you be because messing with you is what they get off on.

And they *certainly* don't care how much of other people's money it takes to make sure you are good and messed with.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 11:38 a.m. PST

This is sooooo wrong.

Dan

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Dentatus Fezian20 May 2018 1:38 p.m. PST

*sigh*

"Rogue One" was so good. What happened?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 2:14 p.m. PST

No movies ever produced were made with TMP demographics in mind.
Especially the ones that actually made money.
When I saw someone seriously propose that the Battle of Stones River would make a really fine movie, I knew we were beyond any hope of being taken seriously.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 2:27 p.m. PST

Lets see … Rogue One

1) Non-stop planet/location hopping;
2) Too many main characters, not enough time to give them all depth; and
3) None of the characters were really likable (see #2) … sadly the re-programmed droid felt more human than many of the other characters

I could go on, but why?

I get the feeling that it is geared for people with the attention span of a gnat, and for people who feel that loads of superficial contacts make for a full life. I may have been their target audience when I was 12, but after so much money made, they haven't made any real effort to add substance to the franchise since then.

Dan

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 2:31 p.m. PST

Counterpoint.
The writers allowed Good Guys to die, instead of holding on to everyone, or holding open the possibility of resurrection.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 2:32 p.m. PST

Thank God for that. That was the only redeeming point of the whole film.

Dan

Zephyr120 May 2018 2:42 p.m. PST

Well, they all died in Rogue One (oops! SPOILER!), so the merchandising was kind of a dead end itself for that movie, unlike the 'sequels', which will pump the stuff out as long as they can (even though some of it apparently didn't sell well at all, e.g. whats-her-name.) Might as well put Mickey Mouse ears on Vader to represent the franchise.
Would still love for them to put out 28mm Stormtroopers, though… ;-)

28mm Fanatik20 May 2018 2:42 p.m. PST

If Jyn Erso's played by a man in 'Rogue One' instead of Felicity Jones more people in the TMP He-Man cave would like it, or find it less objectionable.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 3:14 p.m. PST

28mm Fanatik: "If Jyn Erso's played by a man in 'Rogue One' instead of Felicity Jones more people in the TMP He-Man cave would like it, or find it less objectionable."

Huh? You're back to that again? And are you going to bring up gender on every thread?

TMP link

Are you feeling ok? Can I help you with anything?

Dan
PS. And I think Winston's exact phrase was "He-Man Women Haters Club":
TMP link

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 3:22 p.m. PST

Ah, well. A lot of things I dislike are popular entertainment. As long as they're not paid for with tax dollars, I've got no beef.

But I will make a general observation that money tends to overshoot art. Try a little experiment sometime. Decide for yourself what the best book by a particular author the best book in a series or the best movie in a franchise was, then look up the money--copies sold at the time, seats filled or how much money the author get paid. You'll be surprised how often the great early works net the author next to nothing, while the later pot-boilers make him a fortune.

Artistic virtue is rewarded and artistic vices punished--but not right away.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 3:56 p.m. PST

Hollywood cares more about politics and sleaze than about making money. G and PG-13 movies do very well at the box office but they would rather make R rated movies and preachy movies that forward their agenda than make money.

link

When people make lists of the greatest movies of all time then tend to be older movies that have little or no swearing, no graphic violence, and often family values. Unless the list is made by people under 30 who have never seen a black and white movie or any movie made before they were 3.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

28mm Fanatik20 May 2018 4:25 p.m. PST

Huh? You're back to that again? And are you going to bring up gender on every thread?

Hey, don't look at me cus I wasn't the one who brought it up.

Desmond wrote:

Star Wars is already dead. Sadly the far left zombie wearing its flayed skin is going to be shambling around dropping limbs and grunting about how much it hates white men for the foreseeable future.

Dezmond20 May 2018 4:56 p.m. PST

Well I really don't know how anyone can have avoided noticing our lords and masters have, in their infinite wisdom, decided hating white men is the height of trendiness.

Which leads to rampantly retarded things like the people in charge of Star Wars, with a consumer base that skews *heavily* white and male, deciding that what said audience will just love is a new range of products aggressively marketed as NOT HAVING WHITE DEVILS IN ANY MORE!!!!111!!!

I dunno. How far up your own backside do you have to be to look out over a room filled with unwashed bearded gammons wearing Star Wars T-Shirts tucked in to their sweat pants and think announcing that from now on Star Wars will be free from the oppression of the Pale, Male and Stale! is going to get a response other than some confused silence?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 5:30 p.m. PST

Dezmond: "is going to get a response other than some confused silence"

LOL. I know the cartoon's subject is not directly related, but what you said reminded me of the expression on the skeleton. :)

Dan

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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 May 2018 5:40 p.m. PST

Back to the subject of their weak films …

I wish SW franchise took some trans-generational appeal lessons from the guys who did Stranger Things. Great for the kids and still very interesting for adults, without giving them brain freeze and without sounding necessarily like a long social or political commercial.*

Spielberg was able to accomplish that fun balance with ET, so I know they have the formula. They just choose not to use it.

Dan
* Last year's award speech notwithstanding. :)

DF2009 Inactive Member21 May 2018 5:41 a.m. PST

I'm just sick of the whole Deleted by Moderator agenda.I don't care what the actors opinions are, I don't care about their beliefs, Just shut up and do your job and put out a good movie… As of lately Disney has totally Bleeped texted my childhood… sorry to be so graphic.

D.Fischer II

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 May 2018 8:01 a.m. PST

The origin of He Man Womun Haters Club:
YouTube link

Andy Skinner Supporting Member of TMP21 May 2018 8:02 a.m. PST

I did like Rogue One. I don't care whether or not it was a good movie. It was fun and felt like a Star Wars movie. Planet-hopping included.

andy

Patrick Sexton Supporting Member of TMP21 May 2018 11:03 a.m. PST

Don't know how Rogue One became a penis hating feminist screed but who knows, I have missed subtext before.

Since we are all weighing in on 'stuff', I will make my claim that Rogue One is the best SW film since Empire.

I did not particularly like the last two official SW films but the 'girl character' ain't the reason. Nor is it the "Oh my lower case god, the storm trooper is black." character. In fact the two of them are the reason I'll see the third.

And if you think the politics of Star Wars just recently made a left turn, I remember Mr. Lucas stating back in '83 that the conflict between the Empire and the forest rodents in Return was his analogy of the Vietnam War.

There is whole fewmet load of 'white guys are evil and imperialists and just plain bad' out in Hollywood land but I really don't think Star Wars is it.

Thanks,

Pat

Dezmond21 May 2018 11:55 a.m. PST

>There is whole fewmet load of 'white guys are evil and imperialists and just plain bad' out in Hollywood land but I really don't think Star Wars is it.

You should read the twitter accounts of the people making the Disney Star Wars movies. They are not exactly shy about telling people their politics and how it relates to their movies.

For example, here is the writer of Rogue One posting, IIRC, in connection with Donald Trump:-

You will also note the safety pin in the avatar, which I believe was at the time supposed to be worn to show you were not, well, an evil imperialist and just plain bad white man/republican voter.

>In the wake of this week's U.S. election, the symbol of Star Wars' Rebellion had been adopted by many fans protesting the victory of Donald Trump — and now, two of the writers of next month's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story have referenced the relationship between that movie and the current political reality on social media.

Chris Weitz tweeted the following Friday morning: "Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization." Gary Whitta, the original writer on the project, responded in kind, tweeting: "Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women."

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa21 May 2018 12:00 p.m. PST

Given what Disney can do to a genre SW has got off pretty lightly IMO (so far). Compared to the franchise low point that was the Phantom Menace they are still ahead on points (just). And new cast(s) by and large have managed to do better with the scripts than Hayden Christensen even if they (the scripts) aren't going to win any prizes! Pleasantly surprised with Rebels (me and wife have watched it more than the kids), but haven't got around to the Clone Wars yet.

Saw one of the Solo trailers, which is clearly just a heist movie with added Chewie, and am quite confident that it will be a couple of well spent hours of escapist nonsense (assuming we can acquire a babysitter).

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa21 May 2018 12:13 p.m. PST

Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organisation

Really, no? The old West End Games RPG fluff (no idea how 'cannon' it was – but someone must have okayed it) made that pretty damn explicit about that decades ago! And so what?

Dezmond21 May 2018 12:21 p.m. PST

>And so what?

Well, if you ask them the people who made the movie will happily tell you they made a movie about how women and the noble PoC defeated the evil white men, and they were thinking about modern politics when they did so.

So, I mean,

>Don't know how Rogue One became a penis hating feminist screed but who knows, I have missed subtext before.

…The guys who made the movie spent a fair amount of time on twitter boasting and high fiving each other about the themes of the movie, so…

28mm Fanatik21 May 2018 12:39 p.m. PST

someone must have okayed it) made that pretty damn explicit about that decades ago! And so what?

Yeah, I always find it interesting how some people think that Star Wars had only recently turned liberal after Disney took over the franchise. The themes of SW had always been anti-establishment/anti-bourgeois since the very beginning and Lucas's views are no secret and a matter of public record.

Don't believe it? Here's what Conservapedia had to say about George:

George Lucas was very liberal and left-wing in his politics, where he frequently donated to Democratic candidates. One of the more infamous examples was Barbara Boxer. His left-wing views stemmed from college, where he recalled that he "was angry at the time, getting involved in all the causes. The draft was hanging over all of us, and we were bearded, freako pre-hippies." He also claimed that he was a believer in pure democracy and not Capitalistic democracy. When discussing his ideal filmmaking style and how it contrasted with Hollywood's view on filmmaking, he described it as "the workers have the means of production", implying that he was an adherent to Marxism. Similarly, during a later interview with Charlie Rose on CBS where he denounced the company he sold the Star Wars and Indiana Jones to, the Walt Disney Company, as "white slavers", he also implied that he found Soviet filmmaking to be preferable to filmmaking in America because, barring obviously avoiding making any negative statements against the leader of the Soviets, he is allowed to do whatever he wants, while in America, he has to curtail to a fine line of commercialism. He also implied that he had supported the Vietcong during the Vietnam War when he admitted that he based the Ewoks on that group and the Galactic Empire and it's defeat on Endor on America and its involvement in Vietnam. A note for his 1973 screenplay for Star Wars (at the time known as The Star Wars) also indicated that he had intended for the Galactic Empire as a whole to be based on America and its involvement in Vietnam (as well as Emperor Palpatine, its leader, specifically being based on then-President Richard Nixon), and that he specifically intended for the Rebel Alliance to be based on the Vietcong since the first movie entered production. He also specifically intended for Star Wars to be the third of a thematic trilogy detailing various critiques of the Vietnam War (with the first being American Graffiti and the second intended to be Apocalypse Now before he was forced by Warner Bros. to hand it over to Coppola due to his studio, American Zoetrope, being shut down by the studio). He also implied that at least one other inspiration for the story involved Napoleon Bonaparte taking over France during the French Revolution. Part of his reason for selling the Star Wars franchise to Disney was to make himself tax-exempt when the George Bush tax-cuts were repealed in 2013, despite his aforementioned lectures on how "the rich shouldn't own government". He also voiced his support for Occupy Wall Street in 2012, with his declaring to his then-future second wife Mellody Hobson in a New York Times article that he was, among other things, a "dyed-in-the-wool 99-percenter before there was such a thing." During the 2008 election campaign, George Lucas infamously declared then-Presidential candidate Barack Obama to be a "hero." Ian McDiarmid, the actor for Emperor Palpatine in the films, implied in an interview with The Guardian that George Lucas' decision to have Star Wars be geared towards children at eight years old was specifically to indoctrinate them into Lucas' left-wing views. He also implied at one point that he supported the Jacobins and their revolution until Napoleon took over when explaining his philosophy of dictatorships appearing due to people "giving away" democracy. Lucas, or rather, his Educational Foundation, was also responsible for the left-wing educational group Edutopia. On the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, Lucas also sarcastically vowed to "only make films blindingly uncritical of [America]" in mockery of pro-American films.

Sorry to break it to you, fellas, but SW had ALWAYS been this way lonnnnng before the Disney-era. Maybe it's time to rethink and re-evaluate the SW you loved of your youth. That means everything cus it wasn't just Disney after all.

Dezmond21 May 2018 12:48 p.m. PST

Indeed. We have always been at war with Eastasia, and Star Wars was always taken as a far left sermon about how evil white men are.

In fact it is quite remarkable just how many entertainment franchises (and other western institutions) have turned out recently to have always been about advocating for communism and Intersectional Feminism.

I would kind of like a list of entertainment properties that *haven't* always been about speeding the ethnic cleansing of people of European ancestry so I can go and watch those instead.

Dezmond21 May 2018 1:35 p.m. PST

In some breaking news we have an announcement from the new president of The He-Man Woman Haters Club, Ms Kathleen Kennedy.

"The He-Man Woman Haters Club has always been a bastion of progressive politics and the fight against the patriarchy" said Ms Kennedy today at the opening of the Clubs new offices in the San-Francisco Bay Area. "We look forwards to continuing our fight against Cyber-Violence against women and girls as we announce a new series of scholarships intended to promote Women in Stem!"

In other news, the previous president of the club suddenly announced today in a shakily handwritten note pushed under the door of our offices that he was retiring to spend more time with his family and that he would be out of contact for the foreseeable future.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa21 May 2018 2:52 p.m. PST

If its in Conservapedia then it must be accurate! *snort*

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP22 May 2018 1:13 a.m. PST

Well, out of the 26 reasons that this fella gives for why in general today's movies suck, I agree with 23 (88%) of them:

YouTube link

Yeah, for the most part, movies have become expensive garbage, with little to no real content and then overcompensating with all the wrong things. Today's Disney is simply one of the best examples.

Dan

28mm Fanatik22 May 2018 7:46 a.m. PST

If its in Conservapedia then it must be accurate! *snort*

Then try Time magazine: link

or the Washington Post: link

Lucas had gone on record saying that the SW trilogy is a metaphor for the Vietnam War and the excesses (Imperial Presidency) of the Nixon Administration. He intended the "Evil Empire" from the beginning to symbolize the United States (not the Soviet Union as some people would later have us believe) while the rebels (and Ewoks) represented the oppressed underdogs (i.e., Vietcong). His support for the previous POTUS and other liberal causes is also well known.

To give George Lucas and the original trilogy of 1977 – 1983 a free pass while treating Disney differently is to accept a double standard.

Of course, back when you're a kid or young adult at the time you don't really think about politics and make the connections like you do today with the Disney films. But still, what's fair is fair.

catavar22 May 2018 10:30 a.m. PST

Don't worry about change. No movie is filmed in stone. Han would never shoot first, would he?

Dezmond22 May 2018 11:03 a.m. PST

It remains very impressive how every organisation in the western world, from NASA to the Anglican Church, turns out to have been founded with the intention of being an advocacy group for Islam and intersectional feminism.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa22 May 2018 11:51 a.m. PST

Never doubted that Lucas' politics might be somewhere to the left of centre or indeed SW might have a sub-text – but then its hardly alone on that score.


Personally I reckon one of the big killers of modern movies is the risk adverse nature of film production. You end up with movies that look like they were written on the basis of focus groups rather than a script writer…

Dezmond22 May 2018 12:11 p.m. PST

In fairness that isn't really something you can level at the Disney Star Wars.

Or, I mean, if ‘Denounce all your customers as Nazis for commiting the sin of being born men with white skin' is supposed to be a risk averse focus tested strategy then… they really should get some focus groups outside of the Los Angeles Bay Area.

Silurian22 May 2018 12:16 p.m. PST

Goodness, some of you guys get your knickers in a twist so easily!

Whatever happened to just turning off for a couple of hours and enjoying a bit of laser-blasting escapism?
I for one am thoroughly looking forward to seeing Solo later this week!

Dezmond22 May 2018 12:33 p.m. PST

>Whatever happened to just turning off for a couple of hours and enjoying a bit of laser-blasting escapism?

It turned out to be Problematic so the feminists banned it and replaced it with a two hour lecture on gender theory delivered by an angry lesbian.

28mm Fanatik22 May 2018 1:37 p.m. PST

some of you guys get your knickers in a twist so easily

Only a few like Dezmond here actually. It's my point precisely in the second-to-last post of page 1 in another thread: TMP link

You can see in my various posts that I've never been critical of SW as pure popcorn entertainment and escapism, even if it is a bit overrated as an art form.

My hope is that by pointing out that SW had always been "progressive" in its agenda and politics since the beginning and not strictly a recent Disney phenomenon, some of these people will not take it too seriously and back off a bit whenever the topic of a new SW movie comes up.

But who am I kidding, eh?

Dezmond22 May 2018 2:12 p.m. PST

Given the people making the movies explicity state them to be part of their strategy to cleanse the earth of me and people like me as punishment for the sins of our race and gender how seriously am I supposed to take it? It isn't like these are randos in a shed in bumBleeped textistan somewhere. This is my ruling class we are talking about, and they clearly don't like me very much.

Plus they are hijacking what used to be my favourite thing in the world and effectively the holy text of my religion to do it.

I would swear a certain amount of concern is reasonable and a certain amount of resentment understandable.

Dezmond22 May 2018 2:38 p.m. PST

(And even if it is me sperging out, it isn't like there is a shortage of… oddly focused men more interested in X-Wings than personal hygiene in the openly declared race war that used to be Star Wars fandom.

And I think there is a certain amount of evidence we are feeling a bit alienated at them moment.

The review bombing campaign has the ‘want to see' score on rotten tomatoes down to 39%

link

(which I assume is going to turn in to a remarkable number of 1 star reviews as soon as it becomes possible)

And the current tracking says Soylo – A Soy Wars Soyry is going to open to less money that Deadpool 2 just did.

*Surely* in a sensible time Disney should be in damage control mode trying to reassure these disaffected customers that their concerns will be addressed.

But instead Disney employees are doubling down on twitter denouncing people who have been buying their plastic tat for decades as, well, the He-Man Women Haters club and telling them to go Bleeped text themselves in no uncertain terms.

It is odd.

Especially since the He-Man Woman Haters Club has always been a strong advocate for Feminism and Islam.)

Zephyr122 May 2018 3:08 p.m. PST

I just watch the stuff & move on. I don't get emotionally invested in the characters, ignore the SJW agenda (if it's obvious, in which case it only gets a mental eye roll. GL did SW as a Vietnam metaphor? If so, missed that context entirely, which means he failed in his messaging.), and don't buy into the merchandising (collectible it's not.) It's just entertainment to kill a few hours.
But maybe I'm just jaded after years of watching TV/movies (i.e. seen it all before…)

Cyrus the Great24 May 2018 9:00 a.m. PST

I never knew there was such a thing as Conservapedia. I learned something new today and they should learn about paragraphs.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa24 May 2018 11:40 a.m. PST

@Cyrus,
Abuse of syntax and prose is the least of its crimes.

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