"Reasons Why America Will Not Collapse Like the ..." Topic

…Roman Empire.

Old … but still interesting….or not (smile)

"We look to history to figure out if the past is either a prologue or a lesson to the present. In terms of political history, the comparison between the United States and the Roman Empire is attractive because not only do these two represent the most powerful nations of their time, the U.S. actually modeled some of its institutions and thinking after the Roman example. The recent political strife plaguing the U.S. seems to be getting worse by the day and invites the question whether America, like its ancient predecessor, is headed for a downfall. Certainly, from the historical perspective, no empire has lasted forever (so far) and the U.S. is due for a challenge.

The Roman Empire was one of the most successful political and social entities in human history, lasting for over 500 years, from 31 BC to 476 CE. At the height of its power, the empire extended over 5 million square kilometers, controlling around 70 million people, about 21% of the world's population at the time. Like the U.S., the Roman Empire spread its influence around the world through its culture, languages, religion, philosophy, laws and technology…."
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Amicalement
Armand

Interesting speculation.

I think there are many here in the US (and no, I don't mean foreigners) who can't wait for such a collapse, and would be more than willing to open the gates to like-minded "internationalists" at that point.

Anyway, if we can get past all the hang ups, I think this has incredible Ultramodern and even Post Apocalyptic GAMING potential.

Dan
TMP link
TMP link

I think the USA will be around for a very log time. Regardless of what the detractors say in the media, etc.,.

You might be right. In which case this falls under the heading of SF or Alternate History … and it can still make for a cool campaign game.

Dan

You will note NK talking about non-nuclearization for the first time ever.

Countries actually talking about real free trade for the first time.

Despite NAFTA, Mexico has very protective laws ensuring only domestic made new cars see the market place. Hence why we here 8n Texas see 15 year old cars in tow constantly heading South. Usually one vehicle towing 2 more; not kidding.

The countries most complaining that the U.S. is starting a trade war the are very countries that tax U.S. goods at a higher rate than the U.S. taxes in turn.

While decadence is a quantifiable problem here in the U.S., we seem to be exporting it elsewhere too. It was the replacement if Roman citizens with foreign ones along with dependence on foreign buffer tribes that lead to the downfall of the Western Roman empire. Byzantium started relying on mercenaries too much itself as well.

If anything it will be the fill exportation of manufacturing jobs that will be the downfall of the U.S. Luckily, jobs have been coming back such as furniture making. Lower corporate taxes should see capital returning to the U.S. along with other jobs. Japanese and European car companies have plants in the U.S. for a reason, cheaper to build here for North American markets.

I'm sorry, the fall of the Roman Empire was when Trebizond fell in 1461. The Eastern, "Byzantine" Empire was Roman. They thought of themselves as Roman. The term "Byzantine Empire" is an historical construct introduced in 1555 by Hieronymus Wolf.

As to the fall of the U.S., I'll believe when I'm racing my two horse chariot along the southern wall!

Ancientsgamer: "Hence why we here 8n Texas see 15 year old cars in tow constantly heading South. Usually one vehicle towing 2 more; not kidding."

I believe you. I see it all the time.

Dan

It was the replacement if Roman citizens with foreign ones
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One of the accusations made by opponents the globalist leaders in many Western nations is that they're attempting to do something like this with the importation of large numbers of immigrants. It's up to the reader to decide whether or not they think that's accurate, but the basic argument is that the establishment political leader class of the various nations has decided that since the local citizens don't always appreciate the enlightened leadership that said establishment political leaders would provide, it would be better to import outsiders that the leaders believe will be more appreciative.

There are other reasons that I won't get into here, but the above is one of the accusations that I sometimes see leveled.

Eumerin: "globalist leaders in many Western nations is that they're attempting to do something like this with the importation of large numbers of immigrants"

Which Western leaders are proposing to institute the equivalent of Foederati with unassimilated foreigners? Is it in the same countries with enclaves that law enforcement authorities are told to keep out? Got any links?

Thanks

Dan

Something else to be remembered … albeit some may say there are some "similarities" between the USA and ancient Rome …

The USA is NOT Ancient Rome …

Call my crazy … but …

I hope your right but no Empire or country has lasted forever yet.

Cacique Caribe wrote:

I think there are many here in the US (and no, I don't mean foreigners) who can't wait for such a collapse, and would be more than willing to open the gates to like-minded "internationalists" at that point.

I think that there are, in addition to those you mention, many here in the US who can't wait for such a collapse, and would be more than willing to impose apartheid and theocracy.

That is right…..

Amicalement
Armand

would be more than willing to impose apartheid and theocracy.

Learn your history so that you don't repeat it.
This country got it's start as an escape from theocracy. and lacking any further place to escape to, we are kind of picky about keeping it that way. In fact, the very first thing that we did after standing up our current government was to say that:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

On the subject of apartheid, note that The Constitution for the most part addresses "the right of the people". This being very non-specific and all-inclusive.

I think that there are, in addition to those you mention, many here in the US who can't wait for such a collapse, and would be more than willing to impose apartheid and theocracy.

Sadly that is probably true …

I hope your right but no Empire or country has lasted forever yet.

In both posts I quoted … My $$$ is on the USA …

I may just be biased and optimistic …

But that's my story … and I stick'n to it …

This country got it's start as an escape from theocracy.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. The Puritans came over, not to escape theocracy per se, but to escape oppression by the Anglican church-state apparatus and to set up their own theocracy.

Most of the southern colonies were established by Anglicans seeking land from which to extract wealth, not freedom from religious persecution.

Many other religious groups came to the New World to escape persecution by church-state apparatuses, such as the Huguenots. Like the Puritans, but on a much smaller scale, these groups also formed communities dominated or exclusively populated by a single religion.

The War of Independence required cooperation among all of these people, as did establishment of the new nation. None of the newly-minted citizens of the United States was going to tolerate living under the yoke of someone else's religion. The solution was to let everyone worship as they pleased.

Freedom "OF" religion, not "FROM" religion.
It's called " expression" -- when that's gone the purpose of the United States is gone.
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Which Western leaders are proposing to institute the equivalent of Foederati with unassimilated foreigners? Is it in the same countries with enclaves that law enforcement authorities are told to keep out? Got any links?
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Sorry, can't provide anything further on it. As I mentioned, it's a theory that I see suggested from time to time. I haven't researched it myself, so I don't know how much water it carries. In any case, Foederati would be the wrong analogy. This would be more of a mass immigration sort of thing. i.e. outsiders immigrate en masse to the country with the active encouragement of the political class. See Merkel's recent actions regarding "Syrian" refugees in Europe as an example.