"Preferred rules for WW2 gaming with 28mm?" Topic

fuziler of the Pavlovsk grenadierial regiment.
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What are folks first choice rules for gaming with 28mm? I am guessing Bolt Action is popular, but what else are people using?

First topic on the 28mm WW2 board and the bug strikes!

I think it's pretty much a choice between Bug Action and Chain of The Bug, isn't it? Maybe that set from THW called BUGS! should be added in.

….

For headed to head games I play Skirmish Action and Disposable Heroes. I use Nuts! for solo play. regards, Bill

We still play Easy Eight's Battleground WWII

Chain of Command is defiantly the up and comer.

With that grenadier, has to be a Russian Front game – Battlegroup Kursk maybe

Tigerjlm – Glad to see someone still using Easy Eight. I played that years ago. Looking at Chain of Command now.

PzJ

Chain of Command for me

Bolt Action.

No, Chain of Command.

No, Bolt Action.

No, wait, Chain of Command.

(I like both.)

Bolt Action

Still have my copy of Battleground WWII. Really should sell it as I haven't even looked at them in years.

In this order:

IABSM3
Bolt Action
Chain of Command
Rapid Fire
Flames of War

Disposable Heroes for me. Nuts! every once in a while. Homebrew stuff too. Use Bolt Action most frequently despite the fact that I cannot stand to play it anymore. Its not hard to know the way to win after 50+ games. It does not feel at all like WWII and is dry. My friend seems to only like "shiny" rules so I get stuck with them a lot…

Battlegroup (Overlord).

Kind of cheating here as I game in 15mm

But Chain of Command or BattleGround WWII (but in only very small games)

Chain of Command

Five Men at Kursk, as I find a squad per side on a smallish table works best for me these days.

I like Bolt Action. Yes, there are more technically accurate rules, but I want to play a game, not do Crime Scene Investigation. Does the game reflect reality? Do sensible tactics work? Is there an element of strategy? Does it play fast? How many times do you have to stop play to look up a rule? I didn't like the first edition, so wrote my own game. The lessons learned was the give and take between 'historical accuracy' a debatable concept), and playability. Some of the things I didn't like about BA I came to see as reasonable tradeoffs. So I am a fan of the game.

Battleground WWII for me as well, squad vs squad at that scale up to platoon vs platoon at biggest.

What Randalll said. I too like Bolt Action.

Lots of different rules out there and often discussed. I think the main thing to say is play what your opponents are playing.
Now if you want something specific from your gaming, say what it is and we can point you in the direction of what you are looking for.

Arc of Fire?

Try this – five of the biggies of WW2 Battlegroup, Bolt Action, Chain of Command, Flames of War, Rapid Fire
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Sticking to 28mm – so we are talking Skirmish Game.

Skirmish is difficult to simulate because of the Command Control issues (really most of the time nothing should happen). But not impossible wiht the right design work

Again the simulation v. fun is a false trade off, its quite possible to have both, complexity is not in and of itself a requirement for a simulation. Bolt's simulation problems come from design decisions. Its actually got a fairly complex resolution system with multiple d6 rolls – just watched two fairly experience players slowing grinding through its cumbersome hard back rule book (padded with pictures) looking up stuff on charts etc.

(Always surprised players still trying to slog through Battleground WWII – tough hombres).

We await a great design for this level of combat.

TomT

Sticking to 28mm – so we are talking Skirmish Game.

I don't see why. I class a skirmish game as a dozen or so figures. We would play WW2 with around 100 figures and perhaps 8 vehicles. Not what I would call skirmish.
Again I don't see a Command and Control problem. Real life units are issued orders and try to fulfil them. Games from what I have seen, each unit acts as the player wants, which could be different every turn. Now on this thread we are thinking what is currently available rather than what might be. Anyone got any thoughts on what they want for units actions in a WW2 game (so a requirement that needs to be filled).
I rather like to have games where weapons have realistic effects. Since I am a professional wargamer, I get to try a wide variety of rules. We tried Rules of Engagement from Great Escape Games and came to the conclusion that the only infantry weapons to bother about were machine guns, they dwarfed the effect of rifles (so riflemen were just there to take the bullets). But again what you get is what the rule writer wanted, you like it or you don't.
And yes there are a lot of very pretty rule books out there. I didn't bother, reasoning that you only really look at a picture once. So greyscale for me and it keeps the printing costs down. Of course its a bit more work changing colour pictures to greyscale :)
We only play for fun, so if a set of rules ain't fun, they ain't worth bothering with.

Crossfire, always crossfire

Crossfire sounds good

Crossfire focuses on company-level, infantry operations by stressing three interrelated features: movement, firepower, and terrain. It assumes the tabletop action is occurring well within the effective ranges of WW-II small arms. By stressing these fundamentals, player commanders in Crossfire are encouraged to use covered terrain routes for troop movements, and establish fire bases that both support their own movements and interdict those of the enemy. Variable troop quality and national command & control differences modify these fundamentals. These conflicting tactical concerns will challenge the best gamers in our hobby. And because these concerns were paramount in the minds of real commanders, I believe Crossfire also succeeds as a simulation, in spite of its abstractions.

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If I want to play as a squad (or solo)- NUTS!

If I want to play as a platoon – Chain of Command

If I want to play as a company …….. I need to paint more minis :) Also my choice at this scale would not be 28mm anyway. But that (and just about everything else in the thread) is a matter of taste.

I would agree with Crossfire.

You could play Battlegroup Kursk/Overlord/whatever in 28mm. That would actually be my preference for rules if we're going to play in 28mm, don't like Bolt Action's pull-a-chit-from-the-bag initiative mechanic.

But I play in 15mm, so usually Flames, sometimes Ambush Alley (I do have the first printings with the WW2 conversions inside). Haven't been able to convince the guys to play Battlegroup.

Chain of Command. I love Crossfire as well, but play it at 6mm instead.

I designed my set of WWII rules "Fireteam WWII" with 28mm in mind. I would describe them as somewhere between Bolt action and Chain of command.

wargamevault.com/product/277858

Chain of Command for me.

If anyone wnats to check out my set Fireteam WWII they are currently at the reduced price of $7.99 USD!!

wargamevault.com/product/277858

A toss up between Chain of Command and Bolt Action. Chain of Command has a far more realistic feel to it, but Bolt Action is way simpler.

Shameless plug. I like my rules for sharp, intense firefights at squad and platoon level. Like the fights in the movie Saving Private Ryan. Endless debate on how "real" those battles were but if you like that type of fierce firefight using easy to learn rules give them a try. More here

actionsrules.com

following up on the shameless plug thread, a mile above all others when it comes to work well, fun to play and easy to pick up: 1-48TACTIC

everything else is just sluggish and boring by comparison… :)

it's a very fast-paced skirmish scale WWII game, which uses an innovative system based on stat cards and tokens to produce a brutally realistic simulation without tables, accounting, etc…
The rules are available for free, including some cards and all tokens needed… there is also some awesome how to play video, check them out: YouTube link

1-48tactic.com

Chain of command for me

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Perhaps such misnamed threads can be renamed or converted, apart from the lead post, and removed from Napoleonic Gallery and Painting Guides groups entirely?
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If you are interested in a more accurate and less abstracted translation of combat rules check out Lee494 rules. He's had Special Ops guys using his rules. Evidently they thought his translation hit the sweet spot for them.

Wolfhag

Thanks Wolfhag! Hope we can all get back to gaming once this Pandemic Thing subsides. I have three new sets of rules in the incubator waiting til gaming resumes to start Playtesting.

Stay Well!

Arc of Fire, simple, random activation and easy to learn.

A bit of a wild card, but the old WRG rules were designed for 1/72 scale figures, so could be said to have been designed for that scale. I have seen free copies oft he rules on the web kicking around, so perhaps that is something to consider.

Arc of Fire, then Chain of Command. AoF will give you the same feel and results as Battleground WW2 in half the time. Excellent set covering 1900 to now. Only weakness is the chemical warfare rules and the current published set is version 1. Version 2 the first reprint corrected some errors. These are in the current 3rd reprint. Scale is 1"=5 meters or 1"=10 meters.
WRG WWII and Moderns are in 1:1000 or 1:2000 scale. 1/300 is the size for them.
CoC is 1" = 3 meters. Definitely skirmish.

Tank Guy that was an interesting piece on Groundscale. Sheds more light on the rules some of which don't even have credible groundscales.

I create a video review of Spearhead recently and noticed it has a scale for 20mm figures, not exactly 28mm, but I would expect this to be suitable for 28mm. The only issue may be the element scale, with each element representing five vehicles. The rules are reasonable, so it may be a good option for you.

Ground scale, and game-turn scale, has a major impact on rules. I did a Video‌ on scale a while ago which drills into this topic in lot more detail.
Look at the game-turn scale and ground scale to give you a view of how much movement you would normally expect in a game. If each game-turn represents a very small time, then the type of games you would expect are on the skirmish side, if the game-turn length is greater, then you get a more manoeuvring and tactics in your game.