| Pyrrhic Victory | 21 Dec 2017 12:07 p.m. PST |
Ok this is prompted by Rubicon's soon to be released Sherman I/Ic (M4) and Sherman I/Ic Hybrid (M4 Composite) and my confusion about where they saw service. I know most British Sherman's in NWE started as Sherman V/Vc models with Sherman III in some of the independent Armoured Brigades. Where and When do the Sherman I/Ic or Hybrid start appearing? And was it just Fireflies or did some of the 75mm Sherman I and Hybrid also serve In NWE? Thanks!
Ed |
 4th Cuirassier  | 21 Dec 2017 12:24 p.m. PST |
I have been getting into Sherman taxonomy very, very recently and AFAIK so far, it was M4, M4A2 and M4A4 that were converted to 17-pounder, while the Shermans sent initially to the desert were mainly M4A1. I have come across photos of M4 and Ic in Italy and NWE alike, eg a Guards Armoured Division IC. AFAIK Guards Armoured served only in NWE. Eg this is a Ic I think judging by the hull hatch location, apparently at Beauvais in August 1944:
This is a hybrid Ic at Liege:
And here is a Sherbrook Fusiliers Ic – another NWE-only unit.
If your question is towards what models you can use in what theatre, I'd say almost any could be argued for. If it's a specific formation, no doubt someone with a good library will be along soon. |
| 15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 21 Dec 2017 3:47 p.m. PST |
Tamiya released a Sherman Firefly IC belonging to 7th Armoured Division in NWE.
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| wrgmr1 | 21 Dec 2017 6:26 p.m. PST |
Thread from 3 years ago regarding this, pretty much answers any question you may have. TMP link |
| shaun from s and s models | 22 Dec 2017 1:25 a.m. PST |
there were no m4a2 fireflys just m4 (not many) and hybrid and m4a4's
plenty of m4, m4a1, m4a2 and m4a4 75mm |
| King Monkey | 22 Dec 2017 3:59 a.m. PST |
Sherman I was used by 33rd Armoured Brigade. |
| Marc33594 | 23 Dec 2017 4:17 a.m. PST |
A good beginning inventory for June 44 can be found here:
link Doesnt answer your question of course but a good starting point. You will note that Sherman I/II/III/V all found and does answer question about which unit had Sherman I's on D-day. |
| 4th Cuirassier | 23 Dec 2017 6:05 a.m. PST |
@ MArc Any idea who 1st Tank Brigade were, the ones who had the Mk 1s? |
| deephorse | 23 Dec 2017 9:18 a.m. PST |
1st Tank Bde were part of 79th Armoured Division, and consisted of 11,42 & 49 RTR. |
| Marc33594 | 23 Dec 2017 10:01 a.m. PST |
Deephorse has it. They were administratively under the 79th which, of course, never acted as a division. Note the number of Grant CDLs in the miscellaneous column for them.
The 30th Armored Brigade in the list (1st Lothians & Border Horse, 2nd County of London (Westminster Dragoons) and 22nd Dragoons) also fell under 79th on D-day. Notice the number of Sherman Crab tanks in addition to their standard Sherman Vs listed. |
| 4th Cuirassier | 24 Dec 2017 7:15 a.m. PST |
That's interesting, but if that list is accurate all the various Ic hybrids operated by Guards Armoured, of which there are lots of purported photos on the web, must have arrived after June? |
| Marc33594 | 24 Dec 2017 9:05 a.m. PST |
Wish I could tell you definitively when Guards Armored got their first ICs. Just a quick look through some of my library shows a IC assigned to the Irish Guards dated 31 August 44. There are several other photos of mid/late August showing ICs but they are unable to state unit. |
checks out some 10/15mm railroad tracks for wargaming.
