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"Should taunting a member who cannot reply be punished?" Topic


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4,111 hits since 9 Jul 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 12:44 p.m. PST

There is currently a two week period, called "Bill's Vacation", where only Supporting Members can post.
A member in the DH cannot post.
Locked accounts obviously cannot post.

I submit that it is a cowardly and dastardly offense to mock said members who cannot reply.
Forget the taudry reply "It's their own fault he cannot answer."
It is still cowardly.

One Member in particular, who I shall not name, is particularly offensive in this regard.

I propose a Poll Suggestion. Yes or No. No waffling conditional "it depends" replies.

Should a member who taunts another member who is unable to reply be subject to a DH punishment? Said punishment shall last as long as the condition that prevents the mocked party from replying. In the case of mocking a member with a locked account, the DH shall last 5 days. "Taunt" shall be at the discretion of the Editor in Chief, or such person as he shall nominate. The Editor MUST give reasons why he does not punish, if he receives a complaint, either privately or in a published post.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 12:46 p.m. PST

Naturally, offenses committed on other sites should not be considered.

Personal logo Jlundberg Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 12:50 p.m. PST

I am fine with that. In general taunting is bad form and should result in caning

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 12:53 p.m. PST

Yes

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 1:03 p.m. PST

Its just a variation on trolling. That earns a spell in the DH already, doesn't it?

Personal logo Bashytubits Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 1:03 p.m. PST

Put them in a corner and give a time out.

Personal logo Tommy20 Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 1:07 p.m. PST

Linky?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 1:21 p.m. PST

Linky?

No. I said I wouldn't name names.
They know who they are. In fact one is quite proud of it.

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 1:28 p.m. PST

I'd support this. People should just stop acting like jerks, that would solve SO many problems, here and everywhere.

I mean, taunting? That's just so childish. And controllable by the individual. It's like littering (which I can't abide) -- it could be stopped just like THAT, if only people *wouldn't do it!* It shouldn't be that hard. Think of the public money that would be saved and the improvement of our environment and public spaces if people would simply stop acting like pigs.

End of my Sunday op-ed.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 1:31 p.m. PST

Yes.

Personal logo PzGeneral Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 2:19 p.m. PST

Yes.

princeman Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 2:41 p.m. PST

yes

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 3:11 p.m. PST

No no no. This crap should be quietly handled by the editors with no drama. Making a poll suggestion, then a poll, then a stupid discussion where Bill will have already decided, followed by some inane post about how the forum rules have been updated, followed by more angst and more argument. Too much nonsense.

If someone is behaving badly call them out or press "!".

Your failure to call them out makes you complacent and I dare say an accomplice if you didn't hit the "!".

Personal logo Texas Jack Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 3:33 p.m. PST

I would agree with Winston, but Private Snafu has definitely seen this movie before. grin

Longshot Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member09 Jul 2017 3:49 p.m. PST

@Winston…yes

@Private Snafu…I don't take Winston's suggestion that additional drama be introduced. I perceive he was just polling us here and now regarding a new policy for Bill to consider and possibly implement. I didn't take it to mean that a poll would be done anytime such a situation occurred. If I'm misunderstanding your point, apologies.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 4:29 p.m. PST

Yes.

I believe it aligns in spirit with the rule that says you can't send an inflammatory PM to someone then invoke the "stop PMing me" rule at the end of the message.

If this becomes a DH offense, it doesn't create any more drama than any other one.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 5:47 p.m. PST

I agree. It is cowardly if it's solely as an insult.

But if the post is to warn other members about someone who has the habit of defrauding others, then the post should be treated as something else.

Dan
PS. However, there is usually a lot more to the story in these "hypothetical" situations.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 10:37 p.m. PST

Whether someone can reply or not is irrelevant. Taunting is not allowed [Personal attack rule]. No poll is necessary. Justice my be delayed whilst Bill is vacationing but if someone complained then punishment would be expected. No poll is required to affirm common decency and decorum.

Personal logo Cyrus the Great Supporting Member of TMP09 Jul 2017 10:41 p.m. PST

NO!

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 12:04 a.m. PST

Yes. Doghouse John Cleese!
He farted in my general direction!

foxweasel Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 3:12 a.m. PST

"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 4:19 a.m. PST

Argh !!

Personal logo Florida Tory Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 4:20 a.m. PST

No.

As others have pointed out, the offense should be judged on its own merit if it is a violation of the rules. Otherwise, it creates a mess when the offender claims ignorance of the other persons inability to reply.

Rick

Cosmic Reset10 Jul 2017 4:31 a.m. PST

What you're really asking is "Can we make taunting acceptable, and guarantee drama in association with the act by implementing the Dawghouse, which is really designed to tolerate the malicious behavior, rather than eliminate it."

Just ban anybody that posts with malicious intent. Maybe warn them the first time, ban them the second. Like every other forum that I use. Anything else just promotes the behavior.

You don't need to write a book of tax code to tell people, "Don't be a pecker." Just have one rule, "Don't be a pecker, or you get banned."

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 5:39 a.m. PST

Private Snafu +2

With no evidence to judge of what the OP claims I have nothing to base my decision on.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 7:48 a.m. PST

Making mock of someone who you know can't reply is abominable manners. Tell me again how much you want good manners to be enforced on TMP, and by who?

And how often should I check--and where--to see which individuals cannot answer today?

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 8:54 a.m. PST

+1 Cosmic Reset!

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 11:44 a.m. PST

This poll would not be "necessary" if the Editor would simply enforce Wheaton's Law. "Don't be a Bleeped text." You don't need polls or FAQs for that. Bad behavior is easily recognized. This is not the Tax Code. This is simply a forum in need of better behavior.

But there is a frequent poster here who loves to get the last word in after his former debating partner has been locked.
One of the reasons I am not naming him is that he is not a Supporting Member. It would be hypocritical of me to name him if he can't reply, hainna? grin
However another different frequent poster did mock someone in the same situation. In this case I'm simply being consistent. I hope. He is also not as egregious as the first poster.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP10 Jul 2017 1:00 p.m. PST

Depends

Personal logo Editor Gwen The Editor of TMP12 Jul 2017 5:55 a.m. PST

Dear Winston,

I have not received any forum complaints from you recently.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2017 8:49 a.m. PST

When Bill gets back and unleashes all the non-supporting members, I will report such Bad Behavior with the alacrity with which the prime offender reports "trolls" who pick on him.
Clean slate, and all that.
Clue: go to Ultramodern and the threads with huge deletion gaps. Our friend displays his Bad Behavior there.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2017 9:28 a.m. PST

Lol. I'm confused. You want us to look at the content of deleted posts and threads? :)

Dan

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2017 1:09 p.m. PST

No, I want The Editor to.
He knows what he deleted.

Legion 421 Jul 2017 7:10 a.m. PST

I was very glad to see while Bill was on vacation. That the boards were almost "incident" free. E.g. based on this previous thread here TMP link

But when I saw this thread, I was a bit disappointed. But I couldn't post … so …

Looked like there was an "incident brewing", IMO.

As self fulfilling prophecy this ?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP 01 Jul 2017 1:12 p.m. PST

It's the Supporting Members under deep cover that I'm worried about. Now is their time!

Talk about karma and hypocritical ! huh?

One of the reasons I am not naming him is that he is not a Supporting Member. It would be hypocritical of me to name him if he can't reply, hainna?

However, this post by Bill is appropriate, me thinks

Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian 16 Jun 2017 7:05 a.m. PST


I think it's acceptable to celebrate when bullies get banned, Hafen.

I can't help but think of the West Point Officers[I am Not a West Point Grad, obviously !] that I served with '79-'90. Who talked about their "honor" code. Something about if you see someone doing something wrong and don't report it. You are "guilty" as well, IIRC. They said something about "omission", IIRC. old fart So not reporting it is "unbecoming". Not the other way around. Some it appears may not have understood that, AFAIK.

peace

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 9:27 a.m. PST

Did their honor code require them to gloat when someone got punished and couldn't reply?

Legion 421 Jul 2017 3:11 p.m. PST

Really John ? But I should not be surprised by your reply.

Many of the Officers, NCOs and troops in the units I served with would gladly dance on a hated enemies' grave. And more … if they could. But that might violate a CG, etc. And So yeah … if that is gloating … than yes …

And yeah, many of those guys were some pretty hard soldiers. Who knew their jobs. And executed them in a "ruthlessly" efficient & effective manner. That is what many of their OERs, NCO, etc., evaluations said. I know I wrote some of them.

One of my LTs in my Mech Co. was a former SEAL then went to ROTC. Became an Army Officer and graduated from RANGER school.

Khusrau21 Jul 2017 4:24 p.m. PST

I do wonder sometimes about what makes us stronger. So in my experience, in UK, Oz and SA, he who tattles is a dobber or weak. And wrong. But someone who doesn't tell when it is wrong is a suckface and lickspittle.

Which makes for most loyalty?

Ottoathome22 Jul 2017 5:44 a.m. PST

Dear Khusrau

Love.

Legion 422 Jul 2017 6:21 a.m. PST

Marsha … Marsh … Mar … huh? Oops, wrong reference … John … John … John … we will always disagree, never get along, never agree to disagree, etc., etc. If you don't throw stones at my glass house … I won't throw them back at yours. So I think it best we just get back to gaming … and probably ignore each other.

Unless you want to continue this cycle of you throwing Bleeped text at me and I return the "favor" …

And as usual Khusrau, we see things very differently. And what I just said to John is applicable to you too.

I will say this, I'll generally take West Point Officers'[or any military leader, Officer or NCO's] advice, comments, etc., many, who were very good friends and comrades. Than something some one like you or John would say. For a variety of reasons.

With the foremost being and this goes for John too … You both never were in the military. Let alone in a leadership position while serving. It think that has something to do with loyalty ? And proven in my experience …

And like John, I don't think you understand many things that I speak of. But again, everyone is entitled to state an opinion. And in turn others can agree or disagree with it.

is a dobber or weak.
So are you alluding to I or my comrades were weak [or as John alluded to … as cowardly] ? E.g. Airborne, RANGERS, SF, SEALS, etc. I hope not … but if you, John, or anyone else does. Your opinions hold little veracity with me. For the reason(s) I have already mentioned and posted in previous threads.

But someone who doesn't tell when it is wrong is a suckface and lickspittle.
Like someone who does not report a war crime, violations of CG or ROE, etc. ?

Or like recently at with US VA system. Where "whistle blowers" reported things that were "wrong" and/or people who were not doing their jobs, etc. ? And others suffered for it …

Or something more mundane. Like stealing from the Mess Hall ?

I think you all know what I would say. And if it is wrong … then it should be reported, yes ?

But again … let's get back to gaming … And this thread really has nothing to do with that … IMO …

And was started to cause trouble or problems, while Bill was away … IMO … of course …

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 7:10 a.m. PST

I get it Ralph. I get it.
You like to tattle and snitch and tell on people etc.
And on top of that you found a moral code, not only that, an honor code that encourages you to do that. You're a lucky man.

Where exactly did I imply cowardice?

When a person is cheating on his wife, do you run to tell her?
If a "welfare queen" parks her Cadillac in a Handicapped Space, do you call 911?
What if someone at Burger King refills his drink more than once?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 8:33 a.m. PST

One other thing Ralph.
I started this thread and deliberately did not call you out, personally. Because by my own moral code, you would be unable to respond. I had the advantage over you due to my Supporting Membership. In all honesty, I never paid a dime for it. One of the Editors kindly gifted me a year around some holiday or other, and the rest is from proposing polls, some absurd, some useful.
So basically I am a freeloader, and thought it would be untoward to lord it over a basic member who could not respond.
Note that I never called you out by name. But as soon as you are able to post, you say in effect "Here now! I am that blackguard!" How perceptive of you.

You are right that I never served in the military. However my father served in WW2, the Big One. And my son served in Kuwait. Both honorably, I might add.
When Vietnam rolled around, my draft number came up as 350 out of 365.
Since Nixon was obviously not trying to win the damn thing, only "show resolve", I figured they didn't really need me there for that. No, I didn't protest it either.
So make of this what you will. If it makes you happy to have something more to despise me over, then I've done my good deed for the day.

Legion 422 Jul 2017 9:52 a.m. PST

OK John, I get it as well … I think we actually may want a similar thing here on TMP. I know that may amaze some ! huh?

You like to tattle and snitch and tell on people etc.
No I don't … but like you I'd think we'd rather have TMP be a place with less drama and vitriol. Yes ? So by "tattling" as you say maybe with Bill's editing there will be less of that. And I'm not being critical of Bill. IMO he has a very hard task trying to keep TMP safe from troll/frolls, etc.

And on top of that you found a moral code, not only that, an honor code that encourages you to do that. You're a lucky man.
No I'm not lucky. With that code, many times you have make very responsible well thought out decisions. Like many times in the military your choices don't only effect you but all/many of those around you. Surely we can understand and agree on that ?

Where exactly did I imply cowardice?

OK … maybe my take on your comments were a little heavy handed. I'll give you that. But with my background I some times take the word "cowardice/coward" pretty seriously.

When a person is cheating on his wife, do you run to tell her?
Yes, when I was working the field as a PI. We got paid to do that. And sometimes they cried like a child and it was just not the women. And I could not fault them for that. I may have felt the same in that situation. And in many case both the "cheaters" were married to someone else. And in most cases I did not enjoy being the bearer of bad news. But that was what we were hired to.

Or having to find an individual who was avoiding being served papers. As they were being sued, etc. Sometimes I felt sorry for them. As generally they seemed to be nice people. But again that is what we were hired to do. And I've also got threatened by some too. They did not like being found.

If a "welfare queen" parks her Cadillac in a Handicapped Space, do you call 911?
I've got a handicap sticker. As do some of my friends. Usually you don't know who parks in the handicap space. Maybe they forgot their placard ? But I'll admit, when I see someone with a placard or even plates, get out of a vehicle and run to the door. I do wonder as I have to drag my bad leg out of my car. And use crutches a cane or even a walker at times. But you & I know things in life work that way sometimes. We have both spent some time on this planet. And been around the block more than a few times.

What if someone at Burger King refills his drink more than once?
Normally I don't go to BK. I'm still an "old fat man". old fart And I usually don't count those type of things wink

"Here now! I am that blackguard!" How perceptive of you.
Well you and I have argued about that before. As well as someone pointed that out to me to clarify my assumptions. But yes, I hope I'm still somewhat perceptive … old fart

However my father served in WW2, the Big One. And my son served in Kuwait. Both honorably, I might add.
My Dad was an Infantry SGT in WWII with the 90ID. See … we may have more in common then we know. And I hope both your Father & Son came back alright. I laud their serving their country. And is wish them the best.

And it does not surprise me at all, that they served honorably. I see from our "conversations" you are a "basically a standup guy". And do have a moral code as you said. And in this situation I'd think the apple does not fall far from the tree. In this case that is a positive thing. From your Dad to you and you to your son …

And I remember you saying about being drafted. I can understand your comment. Again, I may came down a bit heavy handedly. I did not want to infer you were "bad", wrong, etc. Again and I always say, I only sight my service to lend credibility and veracity to my comments. As I have had training and experience while in the ARMY that others don't that have not served.

No, I didn't protest it either.
I would have thought so … again I don't see you doing something like that from read your posts for quite sometime.

If it makes you happy to have something more to despise me over, then I've done my good deed for the day.
I don't despise you, I may get angry with some of the things you say to me or about me, etc. And sometimes very angry at that ! huh? I know I said,
Officers, NCOs and troops in the units I served with would gladly dance on a hated enemies' grave
Again I don't hate you[well not that much wink] … And besides I'm crippled … I can't dance ! evil grin

And yes, you did a good deed today, I think we may understand each other a little more. We may think and feel differently about certain things. And we may be upset again with each other. But I'd say we're making progress … And Bill didn't even have to intervene ! huh?

Khusrau25 Jul 2017 3:44 a.m. PST

I think that when you have served the public in an official role, reached a public service rank equivalent to Major General, written for defence magazines, get consulted on autonomous underwater vehicles, and had Wing Commanders working for you, you are entitled to have opinions.

Oh, and that's in two countries as well, thanks to my dual citizenship.

But hey, what would I know compared to anyone who joined the army.

Legion 425 Jul 2017 5:35 a.m. PST

I generally agree with that Khusrau. And Yes, everybody it entitled to an opinion. As any one is entitled to agree or disagree. In a civil manner, etc. E.g. as we see here IMO.

I'm sorry if there was a understanding of sorts. Of course if your CV is true, and I Don't doubt it is not. I respect that as well.

I have great respect for the Aussies Troops. I have an e-friend or two in your military.

But hey, what would I know compared to anyone who joined the army.
I'm sure you know your "business" very well. You wouldn't have been given that high a position if you didn't. And I too knew my minor "specialties" pretty well too, or so my evaluations, etc., stated in my past.

Your scope is much "larger" than mine. I was just a Grunt Rifle Plt Ldr and later a Mech Co. Cdr. As well a number of staff positions at Bn and Bde level e.g. Air Ops, Log, etc.

But again your scope is way beyond Plt, Co., Bn & Bde levels. So I have to respect that. I hope that does not upset you ? grin

And besides I think in the Big picture you very much "out rank"
me …

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