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"If You're a TMP Poll Hater..." Topic


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1,611 hits since 17 May 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 8:31 p.m. PST

…what can be done for you?

We've had a number of members lately who have posted their rants about why they feel TMP is not meeting their needs, and one of the common threads is a dislike – bordering on actual hatred – of what they call 'stupid' or 'silly' polls.

If you are one of these people, please take a moment of self-reflection and think about what you are saying.

First of all, TMP polls are the way they currently are because it is what the TMP community wants. We've voted on this again and again. In some years in the past, 'non-wargaming' polls were prohibited by community vote. Now, however, the pendulum has swung, and the TMP community seems solidly in favor of allowing all kinds of polls.

So if you are objecting to the polls, do you realize that it is not me or TMP that you are objecting to, but the majority of wargamers?

Aren't you the one who is being intolerant of other wargamers? Do you really need to control how others enjoy TMP? Why do the polls make you so angry?

Do you realize that the non-wargaming polls are often the ones which get the most participation from TMP members? Yes, favorite disco song has nothing to do with most forms of wargaming, but people enjoy the poll…

You are probably going to tell me how much you like those other wargaming websites, where they don't have the 'silly' polls. That's fine, it's a big hobby, not every wargaming website needs to be a clone of the others. Why should TMP change to be more like its less successful competitor(s)? Do we need to ignore the preferences of the members we already have, in order to try to recruit new members (or former members) who have other preferences?

What I'm saying is that I don't understand your level of hatred about the polls. When you attack me or TMP about the polls, you are really attacking the majority of the wargaming community who simply disagree with you. And if it bothers you so much that other wargamers enjoy TMP differently than you do, and you can't simply ignore that small part of TMP that offends you, perhaps the problem is more with you than with us?

I look forward to your responses.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 8:37 p.m. PST

Tell them to go pound sand.
As one of the foremost generators of "silly" polls, my opinion should be obvious.

Some people are just far too serious. Silly is good.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 8:40 p.m. PST

Next week's poll: "Is silly good?"

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 8:48 p.m. PST

Enter Monty Python's "Colonel": "Stop that! Stop that! It's silly!"

Personal logo Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 9:05 p.m. PST

Polls are optional. I have no idea why the people who dislike them simply don't ignore them.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 9:08 p.m. PST

I have no idea why the people who dislike them simply don't ignore them.

Telling certain kinds of people to ignore things just makes them angry. Do we have a psychologist in the house? evil grin

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 9:08 p.m. PST

+1 Coyotepunc

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 9:55 p.m. PST

+2 Coyotepunc.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 9:57 p.m. PST

I'd be curious to hear how much time is spent maintaining the polls by the Editors. When I see other things broken or the inmates running amok I wonder how much of my hard earned money that I spent on a subscription is allocated to poll maintenance.

I think they are silly, sometimes participate, mostly ignore.

It's just the other disfunctional things that irritate. Core stuff like having the front page working, memberships renewed, and advertisers supported.

I don't care if the majority like them, I think they are dumb. My opinion should have no bearing on your enjoyment of them. Knock yourself out, they are dumb.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP17 May 2017 10:37 p.m. PST

I don't care. I block them, as I consider them a waste of time.

However, if someone else enjoys them then why should I rain on his parade? Or Poll?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 10:45 p.m. PST

I'd be curious to hear how much time is spent maintaining the polls by the Editors. When I see other things broken or the inmates running amok I wonder how much of my hard earned money that I spent on a subscription is allocated to poll maintenance.

I usually do the polls myself these days. I consider it a form of relaxation from my other duties. Time varies extremely, depending on the poll – most polls take 5 minutes or less to set up, but a complex multi-part poll with options that need to be double-checked or researched could take an hour or two. Then again, a multi-part poll runs for many days, so it kind of counts as several polls in terms of work…

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 11:25 p.m. PST

I am fine with 'silly polls' and 'non-wargaming' polls. They can be a bit of a laugh.

However. During the initial poll discussion when nominations are made, some suggestions clearly do not meet the parameters of the poll. Again, this is a bit of a laugh, it is a discussion and jokey ideas get thrown around. But that does not mean that these obvious joke answers should make it to the poll.

If we had a poll asking 'where on Earth would you like to visit' and someone replies 'the Moon', don't include that answer in the final poll! It doesn't fit the question!

Look at the 19th Century wars poll running now. The OP specifically said EXCLUDING the Napoleonic Wars and the ACW because they are obviously the most popular. What does he end up with? A poll where the final vote has the Napoleonic Wars and the ACW as the runaway winners! And why are they on the options list? Because someone nominated them!

Bill, you are the Editor. Editors cut stuff before publishing. So please edit your polls. Of course, the trick to successful editing is knowing what stuff to take out and what to leave in….

Personal logo John Treadaway Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 12:03 a.m. PST

There is a fine line between popular and populist. I'm sure that "success" (however one defines that) stands astride that line like a Colossus.

John T

Porthos18 May 2017 2:13 a.m. PST

I don't like silly polls. In fact I hardly ever see an (for me) interesting poll. So I just ignore them. If other people do like silly polls, let them have their fun ! Since I am not forced to join I happily resign to continue to ignore the things I do not feel important or have nothing to do with me (for instance wargaming in another country that I will never visit anyway).So use your energy for positive posts instead of useless (since it will not have any results) "heated" critics.

Black Scorpion18 May 2017 4:19 a.m. PST

No interest in polls but I know there's a frustration from sponsoring members that Bill would spend time on them or this topic when we can't get replies to banner requests, news stories being run or even replies to basic questions.

Bill I'm assuming you still haven't noticed you've set our kickstarter news story to run one year from now? You can cancel that it ended weeks ago, also the banner advertising requests are now mute and should be ignored.

Oh Bugger Inactive Member18 May 2017 4:23 a.m. PST

Polls I can take or leave, the latter mostly. Customer Care is something that always interests me.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 5:35 a.m. PST

Look at the 19th Century wars poll running now. The OP specifically said EXCLUDING the Napoleonic Wars and the ACW because they are obviously the most popular. What does he end up with? A poll where the final vote has the Napoleonic Wars and the ACW as the runaway winners! And why are they on the options list? Because someone nominated them!

Apparently you haven't read the original poll proposal. Here is a link: TMP link

(Yes, he included Napoleonic and ACW in his options list!) evil grin

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 5:43 a.m. PST

No interest in polls but I know there's a frustration from sponsoring members that Bill would spend time on them or this topic when we can't get replies to banner requests, news stories being run or even replies to basic questions.

As you may not be aware, TMP is operating on reduced staff hours these days. Unfortunately, that means things will sometimes fall between the cracks, or that there will be a waiting list at times. There's nothing I can do about that until the hobby economy improves.

However: (1) As of last night, all Hobby News stories are on schedule. (2) I've replied to every email received in the past few days. (3) And yes, I am working on the backlog.

Bill I'm assuming you still haven't noticed you've set our kickstarter news story to run one year from now?

We had to do that so we could flush the stories out of the system once they became outdated.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 6:09 a.m. PST

Why is the assumption that anyone who dislikes or ignores
some thing (person, event, issue, entertainment, etc.)
is a 'hater' ?

Sorry, I don't care for the polls and I think I have the
topic unchecked. So brand me a 'hater' if you wish.
I may have stumbled upon a poll topic while doing a
search and replied. Sue me, it was totally accidental.

I shall NOT try to live down to the branding…

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 6:16 a.m. PST

"Unfortunately, that means things will sometimes fall between the cracks, or that there will be a waiting list at times."

So people that paid for service will get screwed, but you have time for polls, makes perfect sense.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 6:21 a.m. PST

Why is the assumption that anyone who dislikes or ignores
some thing (person, event, issue, entertainment, etc.)
is a 'hater' ?

I don't think anyone said that, Ed. I certainly didn't.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 6:24 a.m. PST

So people that paid for service will get screwed, but you have time for polls, makes perfect sense.

If you can do better, please feel free to start your own hobby website. grin

Nobody is getting screwed. There are simply limits to what TMP staff can accomplish in the time available.

Allen5718 May 2017 6:47 a.m. PST

Silly polls? I keep them on my homepage but rarely participate. Like anyone I am at times dissatisfied with the stuff people post on the message boards or as polls and with some of Bills, IMHO, poorer decisions. So what. I get over it as I am sure most of the rest of the TMP community does.

Bill, has life got ya down right now? Your recent series of posts would seem to indicate that. Take a deep breath and ignore us crazies for a bit.

Black Scorpion18 May 2017 6:54 a.m. PST

So just to be clear… We chased you up several times about the banners and news story (which we sent in to run before the kickstarter start) the last of which was about a week before the end of the campaign where you said 'sorry busy. trying to catch up..'

I then immediately received the notification that the news story would run the next day (I didn't notice the 2018 until much later just glanced at it) and thought ok at least its being run before the end.

I then wondered why it didn't run and noticed the wrong year assuming it was a typo/honest mistake.

But now you're telling me it was actually deliberate? So rather than just running the story you actually cancelled it and sent me a notification that would clearly give the impression it was being run the next day?

ttauri Inactive Member18 May 2017 8:43 a.m. PST

Never mind paying for adverts. Look! Look at the shiny polls.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 8:59 a.m. PST

"If you can do better, please feel free to start your own hobby website"

So TMP is not a for-profit business ? Kind of like
our antique shop (ain't turned a profit in almost 3 years)

USAFpilot18 May 2017 9:45 a.m. PST

Any poll on any subject is fine and can be fun to participate in. The problem is that many of the polls are poorly worded or the question being asked (or the answers provided) don't pass the logic test.

A simple example of this:
What is your favorite vegetable?
a) spinach
b) bananas
c) I don't like vegetables
d) none/no opinion

So what if a person's favorite vegetable is broccoli, how do they answer? What if a person likes most vegetables but hates spinach, should they answer bananas; but banana is not a vegetable. What if a person doesn't like vegetables, do they answer c or d?

Since most people eat some type of vegetable and know that bananas are not vegetables, that leaves 'a' or 'd'. Since 'd' is a non-response, that leaves 'a' as the winner. So most people's favorite vegetable is spinach. Say what???

When you write a flawed poll; you get stupid answers. (of course political polls are cleverly written this way to get the answer your want, which has nothing to do with the truth)

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 10:17 a.m. PST

Ok, so maybe the 19th Century poll was a bad example! Although, to be fair, there are mixed messages from Gunfreak there. In the comments section of round one of that poll he says that Napoleonics and ACW were disqualified and he wanted to know about the others!

I still believe my point is valid. It is repeated in a more erudite fashion by USAF pilot above. And the reason given that 'bananas' end up as an option on such a poll is always 'because somebody nominated it'. Joke nominations should be edited out….

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 10:34 a.m. PST

The problem is that many of the polls are poorly worded or the question being asked (or the answers provided) don't pass the logic test.

Then I suggest you participate in the pre-poll discussion on the TMP Poll Suggestions board, where you can make suggestions on future polls.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 10:39 a.m. PST

But now you're telling me it was actually deliberate? So rather than just running the story you actually cancelled it and sent me a notification that would clearly give the impression it was being run the next day?

What I'm saying is that since the story could not be published on time, it was flushed from the system. Part of flushing it from the system was to schedule it for a date far in the future, which moved the story to a place where it could be deleted from the system.

You received an automatic notice when the story was scheduled for the 'distant future' date. I'm sorry that it was confusing for you.

alien BLOODY HELL surfer18 May 2017 10:42 a.m. PST

Black Scorpion – you could in future just wait for Tango to post it for you ;-)

sjwalker38 Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 10:56 a.m. PST

aBHs: its posts like that which make me wish we had a 'like' button on TMP :-)

sjwalker38 Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 11:31 a.m. PST

Looks like the Vapnartak 2017 banner still needs 'flushing': it's only 3 months out of date.

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 12:10 p.m. PST

"If you can do better, please feel free to start your own hobby website. grin"
As usual, you make a snarky comment and dodge the issue.

"Nobody is getting screwed."
That is demonstrably false.

"There are simply limits to what TMP staff can accomplish in the time available."
I'm not denying that, but if you're losing time to polls and folks that paid you for advertisement or memberships are not being served, most normal folks would take another look at their priorities of work.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 12:28 p.m. PST

Looks like the Vapnartak 2017 banner still needs 'flushing': it's only 3 months out of date.

Thanks for letting me know. The advertiser, as far as I know, never asked for the banner to be pulled. I've put the halt on it now.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 12:28 p.m. PST

There is a really poor undertone to this thread. A paid site like this should be responsive to all the membership. Dismissing some because the majority want something else sets a bad precedence. It becomes discriminatory to the the minority.

The high road demands politely pointing out how to ignore what you don't like. Again, and again, and again if need be.

This has nothing to do with taking away members silliness or fun. It has everything to do with The Editors perception that his fun is being violated.

I think the Editor has grown tired and jaded with the membership. It happens to many after a long careers. I can't stand building contractors, the majority of them are awful business people and do not care about serving their customers well.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 12:30 p.m. PST

I'm not denying that, but if you're losing time to polls and folks that paid you for advertisement or memberships are not being served, most normal folks would take another look at their priorities of work.

That reminds me…

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

- Teddy Roosevelt

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 12:38 p.m. PST

There is a really poor undertone to this thread. A paid site like this should be responsive to all the membership. Dismissing some because the majority want something else sets a bad precedence. It becomes discriminatory to the the minority.

So it is discriminatory to listen to the majority of our community?

The high road demands politely pointing out how to ignore what you don't like. Again, and again, and again if need be.

Isn't that what this topic is about?

This has nothing to do with taking away members silliness or fun. It has everything to do with The Editors perception that his fun is being violated.

Now you've completely lost me. So because the polls reflect the will of the majority of the TMP community, someone has taken my fun away???

I think the Editor has grown tired and jaded with the membership. It happens to many after a long careers. I can't stand building contractors, the majority of them are awful business people and do not care about serving their customers well.

I'm in love with the TMP community. I enjoy my time spent with them every day!

And I am truly baffled by that minority, the 'poll haters'. I don't understand how their minds work. Perhaps it is an affliction of the ego, of feeling 'superior' to the 'common wargamer' who enjoys the polls?

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 2:52 p.m. PST

Their minds work like anyone else's. They have likes and dislikes, they love and hate. Your manner is just coming off as insulting. "I don't understand how their minds work." brushes this off as if they have some mental illness.

You are erroneously making a correlation between "common wargamer" and them liking the the silly polls. You will find that plenty of non wargamers will like them too.

When you are insulting to a minority using the majority as cover that is discrimination.

You are being daft. We will need to agree to disagree.

JMcCarroll18 May 2017 5:02 p.m. PST

Shouldn't there be a poll for " pre-poll discussion on the TMP Poll Suggestions board" or is that asking for to much?

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 6:41 p.m. PST

Dear Editor,

I'll give it to you, you're quite hilarious (other than continuing to dodge the issues; I get that your position is untenable, but c'mon), whether you mean to be or not.

You run a toy soldier website (quite poorly at the moment, though you could fix it in a minute if you had the desire); please tell me everything you know about acting valiantly, about having your face marred with dust, sweat, and blood. Perhaps I've been underestimating you; please describe your experiences in 'the arena.'

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 9:26 p.m. PST

Their minds work like anyone else's. They have likes and dislikes, they love and hate. Your manner is just coming off as insulting. "I don't understand how their minds work." brushes this off as if they have some mental illness.

Insulting to the 'poll haters'? Are you a 'poll hater'? Why do you see an insult in a simple question? Maybe someone out there has an answer. Maybe a psychologist.

You are erroneously making a correlation between "common wargamer" and them liking the the silly polls.

Semantics? We're talking about the majority of the TMP community, however you care to state that.

When you are insulting to a minority using the majority as cover that is discrimination.

Incorrect. Discrimination is "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex"

You are being daft. We will need to agree to disagree.

Is 'daft' a code word for saying that I am too silly? wink

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 9:29 p.m. PST

I'll give it to you, you're quite hilarious (other than continuing to dodge the issues; I get that your position is untenable, but c'mon), whether you mean to be or not.

No ad hominem attacks, please. Stick to the discussion.

Personal logo PrivateSnafu Supporting Member of TMP19 May 2017 6:34 a.m. PST

Bill continue to whistle past the graveyard at your own peril.

awalesII19 May 2017 9:12 a.m. PST

To me, the Polls are like the kid at school that gets made fun of and never really realizes he's getting picked on so he always plays along thinking he's part of the group.

It was never really very funny. It's sad. It's people making fun of TMP. And that, I think, is why people get so frustrated by it.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.