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"Is TMP mellowing?" Topic


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3,720 hits since 17 May 2017
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Personal logo badwargamer Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 4:24 a.m. PST

I've not been around here much in the last few years. Is it me or has the place mellowed?
When I was last about there was an anti-tango post almost daily and the great stifle/ignore debate. I noticed the stats no-longer have a league table for stifles and ignores. The place seems more peaceful (ignoring the current silly nazi/name calling doghouse event). No sign of the tmp/frothers war and no mention of the dear editor's crusade to help a section of the world's community by employing numerous editors. Wonder what ever happened to the new versions of TMP he was going to work on while he had the extra staff?
Peace and calm. Hope it lasts!

21eRegt17 May 2017 5:31 a.m. PST

IDK, there are about six in the Dawghouse.

alien BLOODY HELL surfer17 May 2017 5:34 a.m. PST

probably as a lot of regulars have drifted elsewhere, and probably more so as most of us ignore the undesirable type via stifle or not reacting. judging by comments seen on various posts recently, I wouldn't say it has mellowed, they have been some awful views and comments. It might be that the majority that are left here are of the same ilk and thus don't complain. BTW this IS the new version of TMP apparently.

Larry R Inactive Member17 May 2017 5:40 a.m. PST

It could be. I have learned to block idiots that raise my blood pressure and I stick to "only" wargame discussions.

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 6:02 a.m. PST

Only self inflicted wounds started by a usual suspect gets the crowd riled. I honestly think there is an air of complacency here for the past several months.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 6:12 a.m. PST

Stifle/Ignore seems to be doing its job, particularly since the stats are no longer published.

Personal logo John Treadaway Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 6:13 a.m. PST

I find my life a lot easier since I stifled and ignored a few folks (including Tango)

Makes my home page muuuuch shorter too.

John Treadaway

Larry R Inactive Member17 May 2017 6:44 a.m. PST

Exactly John

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 6:56 a.m. PST

Still, the calibre of expertise in the areas that interest me has declined noticeably. Less angst but less useful content too.

Norman D Landings Inactive Member17 May 2017 7:23 a.m. PST

I'm on holiday in Bali and I've had a few beers. If that's contributing to a more convivial atmos, I'll do my best to stay three sheets to the wind and on extended vacation. You're welcome.

Personal logo badwargamer Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 7:42 a.m. PST

Sounds a hardship ;)

Seems I'm not alone in feeling things are different

Gone Fishing Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse17 May 2017 7:46 a.m. PST

I hear what you're saying, Flashman. For the past month or so, all afire with my current project (Old West), I've actually gone back and scanned all the posts on that subject over the years. One of the most striking things about this is to see how many of the posters have left; their monikers are followed only by that "zzzzz." It's very sad.

Now two things should be said. First, a few of them (only a few) were, in my opinion, deeply unpleasant people, and their departing to other sites is no loss to TMP. Second, I must say every question I ask here is still answered almost immediately, with a real spirit of friendliness, and I never fail to be impressed at the depth of knowledge to be found in the membership (which invariably is so much greater than my own).

Furthermore, in the few cases where I've posted the same question here and on other sites, without exception the answers here outnumber those elsewhere, generally by a factor of five or six and show equal erudition. So what I'm saying is that there are still masses of great people here.

This is only my experience. Others' may vary, of course.

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 8:12 a.m. PST

Agreed, Flashie…ambivalence seems to be reigning right now.

JasonAfrika Inactive Member17 May 2017 8:39 a.m. PST

This site has way too much Non-wargaming junk on it…people can get politics and PC propaganda at their workplace by the ton…wargaming is supposed to be an escape from all the negativity and crap in the world…way too many keyboard warriors on here who just sit and wait to pounce on people asking innocent questions….Who needs that? It's the internet for crying out loud…new adventures are just a click away. I know at least a dozen guys who have left TMP and will never come back. Reasons range from Deleted by Moderator implant fund-raising to PC propagandists to Tango to Keyboard Warriors to stupid surveys everyday. I cant figure out why members feel the need to fall all over themselves demonstrating how PC they are about controversial topics that have nothing to do with gaming or to brag about how they are so p whipped by their wives that they have to hide their little miniatures and lie about how much they spend. lol what a joke… OK, Let the attacks begin! I won't be watching cause I'm gone now too… adios! It's been real… real sad watching this site go down the toilet!

Mako11 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member17 May 2017 9:45 a.m. PST

Yep, far too many are gone, so there are fewer postings, and many are far less interesting.

Much harder to get answers or even replies to some questions too, and when you do, they are frequently few in number.

Larry R Inactive Member17 May 2017 9:51 a.m. PST

Well said Jason

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member17 May 2017 10:19 a.m. PST

"This site has way too much Non-wargaming junk on it…people can get politics and PC propaganda at their workplace by the ton…wargaming is supposed to be an escape from all the negativity and crap in the world…"

This is my key complaint (actually, pretty much my only complaint) regarding TMP, and I place it squarely at The Editor's feet. Here it seems every single thread is but a click away from "conservatives suck/liberals suck." This rarely occurs on other wargaming sites, and when it does it's generally slapped down immediately and the conversation returns to wargaming. You can say there is a 'no politics' rule on TMP, but the Ultra-Modern Warfare board has shown that couldn't be further from the truth, and my opinion is that letting politics slide in that board has allowed it to slide into other boards, and even acrimony about which side The Editor is on/favors.

We've seen some ferocious fights about whether unit 'x' was actually involved in this or that battle, and facing colors, buttons, etc…, and while I think it's silly, I at least understand it as it's an issue related to playing with toy soldiers. Debating whether Nazis are left-wing or right-wing doesn't seem to me to have much applicability to toy soldiers, and it's getting tiresome for me*.

One last thing while I'm here: The Editor has also really screwed TMP up with his rulebook. I don't mind the idea of the Dawghouse, it's good for people that need a short break to cool off. But what we don't need is an in-depth, comprehensive rulebook to decide when someone deserves that break. My experience during my short time here (eight years) is that The Editor has really afforded himself the opportunity to look incredibly stupid with his adjudication of the rules based on the letter of the law vice the spirit (so that you can call someone a troll as long as you use the troll icon and not type the actual word, or you can call someone a curse word and you're okay as long as it gets *bleeped*). My opinion is that you don't need a rulebook, you need common sense. When a thread is heating up, drop in to tell them to get back on topic (and delete the damn topic if it doesn't have a straight line from it to toy soldiers), maybe send some PMs to individuals getting off track. If they ignore the warning, DH them for a couple weeks. If it happens again, knock them off the site; clearly they weren't here to discuss wargaming in any case.

*And when I say that, I'm not insinuating I'm important or indispensable to TMP, I'm just another knucklehead. But I'm tired of typing on threads and having to think about how a politically-motivated individual might twist my words in order to carry out some cyber crusade I wasn't even aware of, or of interesting conversations that are/could be useful to wargaming abruptly ending because someone hops in the middle and starts a political Bleeped text-fight. My favorite TMP de-motivator is waking up to see no one has commented on any of the newly posted batreps, pictures of finished troops, or questions about rules design, but there are three new threads dedicated to (or that have morphed into) deciding which TMPer is or is not a Nazi.

V/R,
Jack

Personal logo Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 10:26 a.m. PST

I could go on and on… but I am at the psychiatrist's office for meds.

Breathe in.

Breathe out.

Breathe in.

Breath out.

skinkmasterreturns17 May 2017 11:25 a.m. PST

Maybe a lot of old timers lurk more than comment,life being short,etc.

TheBeast Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 11:28 a.m. PST

Wow, Jack, I must say I've not seen much of that behavior on Sci Fi or VSF gaming.

I shall count my blessings!

Doug

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 12:48 p.m. PST

implant fund-raising

One post by Editor Julia in the 20+ year history of TMP, and that is what stands out for you? If it offends you that she announced her GoFundMe campaign, can't you just ignore it? There was nothing inappropriate about her post, she is a staff member here and part of the TMP family.

Or, perhaps, you have other issues.

Personal logo ACWBill Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 1:01 p.m. PST

Jack hits many points that I have made in conversation with my friends. I daily see posts of great minis or games which garner little or no reaction while arguments over a myriad of contentious issues get hundreds of responses. My line to my best friend, if you want to be ignored on TMP, post something about miniatures.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 1:21 p.m. PST

I daily see posts of great minis or games which garner little or no reaction while arguments over a myriad of contentious issues get hundreds of responses.

You do realize that all of your posts today have been on TMP Talk, and nothing on those 'posts of great minis or games'? grin

Personal logo Cardinal Hawkwood Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 3:00 p.m. PST

Face book seems to have drawn a lot of people away for much of the time?

Personal logo ACWBill Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 4:02 p.m. PST

All of my posts? I posted a single time.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 4:10 p.m. PST

All of my posts? I posted a single time.

I meant your post on the California board discussion, but perhaps the topic has been updated since your post.

I'm just suggesting that if you would practice what you preach, you would self-solve the problem you perceive. grin

corona66 Supporting Member of TMP17 May 2017 7:41 p.m. PST

Over the years I have responded, and hopefully helped, a number of TMP members. Just last week I was thanked by a publishing house for offering a clarification on a member's concern. However a recent message of mine has been deleted by the editor and I have been accused by him of being rude. Well, to avoid failing his standards of rudeness there will be no more correspondence from me while I consider whether I want to continue to be a member of the editor's TMP "family".

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 9:05 p.m. PST

Over the years I have responded, and hopefully helped, a number of TMP members. Just last week I was thanked by a publishing house for offering a clarification on a member's concern. However a recent message of mine has been deleted by the editor and I have been accused by him of being rude. Well, to avoid failing his standards of rudeness there will be no more correspondence from me while I consider whether I want to continue to be a member of the editor's TMP "family".

Part of being mature is learning to accept criticism from others.

To explain to everyone else what you are talking about, in this topic – TMP link – TMP member DWilliams both asked a question and proposed a poll:

Who makes the best Seven Years War/French and Indian War 15mm scale miniatures on the market today?

Corona66's response was:

Why don't you decide for yourself? It's your table and your taste.

Well, I received some complaints that Corona66's post was rude, mean-spirited, breaking the 'shut up' rule, and so forth, so I contacted Corona66 and, as the moderator of this website, suggested he should be a little less rude next time. (I would quote what I said, but I didn't keep a copy.)

Corona66, you really can't see how your post could be viewed as rude or confrontational?

JasonAfrika Inactive Member17 May 2017 9:54 p.m. PST

WOW! I Got this message from Bill in response to my earlier post:
--------------
One post by Editor Julia in the 20+ year history of TMP, and that is what stands out for you? If it offends you that she announced her GoFundMe campaign, can't you just ignore it? There was nothing inappropriate about her post, she is a staff member here and part of the TMP family.
Or, perhaps, you have other issues. Bill
--------------
Bill,
If you read my post CORRECTLY, I was mentioning the reasons why the dozen or so guys I know left TMP…I never mentioned WHY I was leaving! But hey, Thanks for making my decision to leave easier…this is EXACTLY why I am sick of this site! People dont even read posts correctly and then they attack you with snide remarks like we are in the 7th grade. Bye Bye Bill! I will be sure to let everyone know how you treat people on here.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 May 2017 10:39 p.m. PST

I am sorry that I misread your post, JasonAfrika.

Apply what I said to your friend, then. grin Sounds like he has issues.

alien BLOODY HELL surfer18 May 2017 1:08 a.m. PST

Part of being mature is learning to accept criticism from others. Can be applied to the Editor as well as us all. I'd say this is showing TMP is not mellowing – it's yet another drama. The site used to be about miniatures and wargaming. Other sites manage to keep to this, why can't TMP? Still, it had been a while since the last drama, and dramas are good.

Gwydion18 May 2017 1:19 a.m. PST

Did JasonAfrika self immolate or did you get there first and sort him out Bill?

Sad to see anyone go, but if he felt that angry it feels like the right result however it happened.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 1:23 a.m. PST

Hmmm. Mellowness or merely resignation?

Norman D Landings Inactive Member18 May 2017 1:54 a.m. PST

I'm fresh from a full-body massage with juniper oil, and several 'Stark' dark wheat beers by the pool. Don't know if I can get much more mellow, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Personal logo John Treadaway Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 2:07 a.m. PST

Bill, for what it's worth, my opinion is that your intervention on this thread is pouring petrol on an already raging fire.

Part of being mature is learning to accept criticism from others

Physician heal thyself…

Andrew Preziosi Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 4:54 a.m. PST

SEE…this is what I have said for years now. WHY this thread was created is beyond me, but it started out as a reasonable conversation between adults and then Dear Editor just HAD to jump in and WHOOSH…all up in flames!

What the Bloody Hell…just Bleeped text off SUPPORTING (ie, you know, people who give you money to be here) members again…for the Umpteenth time and win the hearts and minds of everyone else.

Did you really have to jump in here, Bill, or you just couldn't resist?

Damn…

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP18 May 2017 5:42 a.m. PST

I'm marshmallowing. Does that count?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 5:48 a.m. PST

I'd say this is showing TMP is not mellowing it's yet another drama.

Because one fellow has a complaint? I think your 'drama threshold' is set far too low. grin

The site used to be about miniatures and wargaming. Other sites manage to keep to this, why can't TMP?

Because this is the way the TMP community wants TMP to be?

If you have suggestions for change, bring them up as poll proposals and let's see what the community thinks.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 5:50 a.m. PST

Physician heal thyself…

I'm not sure I want to take advice from the man behind Nazi Salute. It's the 10-year anniversary, isn't it?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 5:52 a.m. PST

Did you really have to jump in here, Bill, or you just couldn't resist?

Do you have an actual suggestion, or are you just blowing off steam?

Why shouldn't I post on my own forum? Sheesh…

Todd McLeister Inactive Member18 May 2017 6:17 a.m. PST

Physician heal thyself…

I'm not sure I want to take advice from the man behind Nazi Salute. It's the 10-year anniversary, isn't it?

John walked into that one. wink

fantasque18 May 2017 6:36 a.m. PST

wow, just wow.
How astonishingly rude.

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP18 May 2017 7:00 a.m. PST

Readers that have been on the site a while probably know which posters they disagree with and thus do not get tempted to comment on those threads.
Some of the leavers may have left the hobby, died or have more important things to do. It seems best to make a parting angry post before leaving. Then make it again and back it up with the multiple examples of great people (with no names) who are not on the group any more?

It would be interesting to see why folk join or leave. Maybe they could give a reason and see if others think the reason is different.
Anonymity is often the foe of balanced discussion.
Emoticons can often help too. Helps confusion. Conversations with the most posts (historicon,tango, my family)often concern matters of subjectivity; because there are a lot of varied opinions.
Enquiring threads "what is the point of lances" can often develop really well, albeit they can get interrupted by those with repetitive "i am correct and you are all wrong" views.
Self promotion "at last WW2 rules that are like being there" threads are often quite short. Probably because they are often more of a statement than a discussion starter.

The criticism of John is unjust and incorrect. Serves him right for using his name ?

martin

Personal logo badwargamer Supporting Member of TMP18 May 2017 7:49 a.m. PST

WHY this thread was created is beyond me
Just me musing and feeling that things have quietened down a bit. It does seem like there are less posts generally, although I may well be wrong.
Some interesting points made on the subject. Clearly some people not really happy with things. The editor himself seems to be losing patience with it all.
Still many people wanting to be here for the wargaming and the chance to share knowledge and help each other, so that's great.
I for one have spent too much time on the talk thread sharing my opinions. I intend to do less of this nowadays and actually post some more wargame related material! Must be mellowing in my old age!

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 10:13 a.m. PST

The editor himself seems to be losing patience with it all.

I'm fine. grin

It's people like JasonAfrika that I lose patience with. The kind of people who use derogatory terms about others, then claim "I just heard it from a friend." Jason, if you repeat the slur, then you're probably a bigot just like your friend is.

TheDesertBox Inactive Member18 May 2017 10:25 a.m. PST

I ask this out of curiousity, not sarcasm:

What slur did Jason use? I reread his posts and did not see any slurs that popped out to me. Of course, there was a word snipped, but I assume it's a basic medical term based on context clues.

alien BLOODY HELL surfer18 May 2017 10:48 a.m. PST

He used the word Tranny (excuse me for using it there Bill – but it is for a valid point) which is often used as a derogatory term for transgendered people, certainly TG people do not like the phrase. Given the editors are TG you can see why Bill has the stance he has. I agree with him on this one, no need to use a slur phrase at all nor have a dig at the editors.

sjwalker38 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member18 May 2017 10:50 a.m. PST

Unnecessary and petty jibe at John T, dear Editor. It was only constructive criticism.

Can't see comments like that encouraging much positive publicity for TMP in MW in the future.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian18 May 2017 11:18 a.m. PST

It was only constructive criticism.

Not really, considering there were no specifics. And my question is valid: John, after all, was involved in one of the worst decisions in wargaming history.

Can't see comments like that encouraging much positive publicity for TMP in MW in the future.

Is MW still publishing? It's gone stealth mode.

sjwalker38 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member18 May 2017 11:28 a.m. PST

If this was a saloon bar, I'd think you were trying to pick a fight with that nice Mr T. :-)

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