"Sell me on Fireball Forward...." Topic

I am interested in these rules, been looking for a good company level set for a while. Curious about a few things though.

How does it handle armor engagements? Decent level of detail?

What army/equipment lists does the rulebook come with? Are the supplements needed for additional lists or do they have scenarios only?

Anything additional you could add about the positive or negative aspects of the rules would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul

Apparently these rules are so good, everyone is too busy playing to answer your post.

Armor – yes, decent level of detail.

Armor has a front and back armor rating, when you hit the target rolls the armor rating of dice to see how much his armor stops. A 1 is none, 2-5 stops 1, and 6 stops 2.
So if a tank with 3 armor is hit with a gun with 2 Penetration it may end up being killed by the shot. Likewise a gun with 5 Penetration may not be able to kill the target (if all of the armor dice came up 6).

There are also "critical" hits where a 1 or 2 stops no hits 3-5 stops 1, and 6 still stops 2.

Range effects on penetration are handled by the to-hit process as well using the range dice. Closer the target is the higher the possible penetration of the gun.

Finally target and shooter movement have a big effect on chance to hit while being easy to figure out.

The base book includes most everything needed for the major combatants (Germany, Japan, Italy, US, UK, Russia, Poland). The scenario books are mostly scenarios but do include a few (one page or less) scenario specific rules and units.

Negative – Lots of different types of dice needed.
Getting used to the combat system throws some people for a loop, once learned it is simple and quick.

Positive – They set out to make a game that is equal complexity for tank and infantry combat and I think they succeeded. It plays fairly quickly but is not a "quick Play" rules set. Almost all the equipment you need for WWII is included (and the couple units that were not the designers gave the stats for free in the FF email group)
Great online support – the designers answer questions fairly quickly on the yahoo email group and most likely through facebook as well.

I never really got the hang of the dice combinations. Sees very fiddley.

There is a "light" version available for free that will let you play an infantry only scenario (Brecourt Manor) the free rules give a good indication of the feel of the game. I like the rules but hidden units are fairly well "baked in" so not real solo friendly and I am primarily a solo player. The rulebook is very well written with a "programmed" approach to learning the rules similar to the ASL starter modules.

The best WW2 set of rules!

Read the comments on this TMP page.
TMP link

Anyone mind breaking down how the dice mechanic works?
A few people are referencing "funny dice".

There no other set that I more want to like. But I just can't get into it. I know it's just me, but it always feels slow and finicky to me.

Weasel, the dice mechanic is extremely clever and also its weakest point at the same time (IMHO). Here is the fire example from the free rules on their site:

"An American rifle squad in gun emplacement 4 wants to fire at a German machine gun team 13 inches away at the point of the ‘V' shaped edge hedgerow. The squad rolls a RANGE DIE (d20) and HIT DICE (1 white d6 and 1 red d6.) The rolls are RANGE DIE 5, HIT DICE white 5 and red 5. Since the machine gun team is within the RANGE DIE plus the BASE RANGE (total of 15") you look at the HIT DICE to see if a hit is scored. Since the machine gun team is in hard cover you need a 6 on the white die and you always need a 6 on the red die. Because 5's were rolled there is no hit.

Now let's say in the same situation the German machine gun team fires at the American rifle squad and rolls a RANGE DIE of d20 and HIT DICE of 2 white and 2 red d6's. One of the white dice is designated the ‘ammo die.' The rolls are RANGE DIE 17 and HIT DICE white 5,4 and red 5, 6. Because the target is within the RANGE DIE you add +1 to the white hit dice and check for hits. The target is in hard cover so 6's are needed. The white 5 becomes a 6 causing one hit. One red 6 was rolled causing a second hit. The American rifle squad takes two morale checks."

Now… it may not be as complicated as just throwing you into that example sounds… but it is. Different weapons roll different dice, armor has more dice and arithmetic. Supposedly the designers put a great deal of effort into recreating the ASL Infantry Fire CRT into a chartless dice mechanism. An incredible feat that I admire and find fascinating. But trying grab all the right dice, modify, measure, and read them, combined with the activation system, etc just didn't equal fun to me. Just I think I'm in the minority.

I think of it in steps – trying to figure it all out at once causes problems.

1: Am I within the range dice + base Range
Might have hit (continue on to other steps)
2: Am I within strictly the range dice
+1 on chance to hit
3: Is my white die higher than the modified to hit number
(yes, then I hit).
4: Are ANY of my red dice a 6, might have hit (red dice only hit on a 6)

For anti-tank fire there is one added wrinkle. Each time you are within the range dice you add 1 to the penetration value of your gun. Example.
17lber rolls 3d20 for 17,10, and 3

If target within 30 inches penetration is +1
If also within 13 inches (remove the 17) another +1
If also within 3 inches another +1

Played it once at a con had the same experience as CheeseSailor77.

TomT

I had trouble the first time I tried it at a con as well. Unless the Dice rolling is explained up front (and a cheat sheet handed out for each weapon) it gets really confusing really quickly. Saying to just roll X dice this time and X dice next time did not cut it for me. After reading the examples I tried it again and "demanded" to know the stats for the units I would be running – that made it click.

Appreciate the explanations guys.
Sounds a tiny bit like Stargrunt.

Here is a link to the tutorial videos from their website:

fireballforward.com/videos

Not to everyone's taste but we enjoy them. The effect of the dice is that you can't be certain you are out of range of the enemy, so there is constant sense of danger. You can't halt your squad 18.25 inches from the enemy position and be guaranteed they won't get shot.

The rules are OK, but I didn't warm to them.
Played them about 3 times.
Really don't like rules which use lots of different sized dice; I'd rather the designer picks one size and sticks to it.
As others say, the firing mechanics are a very fiddly, but there are also some ? things in the rules.
For instance, a spotting attempt can trigger enemy op fire.
So while I'd be happy to play them again, I wouldn't buy them.

> For instance, a spotting attempt can trigger enemy op fire.

In the case of spotting from armored vehicles this is for a good reason – the tank commander is assumed to be sticking his head out the hatch in order to do the spot attempt and is attracting small arms fire. I'm fairly sure this is the only opfire allowed on a spotting attempt but I'll check the book later.

It is.

Reminds me of a less fiddly and fun Squad Leader and a simpler company level Arc of Fire. Well written and simple rule book with good support and a lot of scenario resources – their own, SkirmishCampaigns and IABSM.
Dice system is not hard. Used to CY6, and in ancient times, D&D though.

There is a guy in northern California that runs this game at conventions. He does a great job explaining it and keeping things going. Players seem to enjoy it. I've observed it on a number of occasions and watched the videos but have not played it personally.

The game is all about dice mechanics which eliminates the need for charts which can be a good thing. However, for me the downside of the dice mechanics and no charts is that it does not capture the flavor, detail and differences in weapons systems. I understand you can't have it both ways.

Wolfhag

How does it compare to Arc of Fire!
I'm not familiar with both of these games. Does those handle artillery and air support?

Cheers