"Best Napoleonic Ruleset for Newbies?" Topic

Which Napoleonic ruleset would you recommend for someone new to the hobby?

Volley and Bayonet. You can be playing the game with just QRS in 10 minutes.

Volley and Bayonet is a fine choice.

As well, Neil Thomas' Napoleonic Wargaming is another good and simple choice.

Neil Thomas or the DBA variant.

I have tried many times to get into Napoleonic war gaming, but have not really liked any of the rules I have read until I discovered Commands & Colors: Napoleonic. Although not a true tabletop war game (played on a hex grid board), I have found the rules to be very approachable and fun for an evenings entertainment. I think this game which includes everything you need to play in one box for about $55 USD is a great introduction to the era.

The Napoleonic rules in Neil Thomas' Wargaming an Introduction (a simpler version of his full Napoleonic set, I use them with some bits and the army lists from the Napoleonic set). The Introduction also gives other rule sets and information which make an excellent start for someone new to the hobby.

Command and colours is also a good game, particularly if used with figures on hexon or similar.

I'd go with Blucher, if only because the option to use cards for units instead of minis, making starting out in Napoleonic gaming pretty easy and affordable.

Normally I'd ask what other periods they've played and use the rules from that period as a guide to what they're familiar with. But as you state they're "new to the hobby" then I'd ask what is it that is attracting them to the hobby and then Napoleonics specifically and use those answers as a guide to the rules they could start with.

Charge! For its simplicity.

Napoleonic Wargaming for Fun for its multiple scale of simple games from man to man to army level coupled with its value as a primer on strategy tactics, and technology.

Black Powder works very well for games where the individual maneuver unit is the battalion.

I really like Black Powder, but given the size of the armies needed, it may not be the best start for a newcomer

for newbies, I agree, Neil Thomas or V and B. I don't think Black Powder is not for newbies.

I really like Black Powder, but given the size of the armies needed, it may not be the best start for a newcomer

You don't need big armies to play Black Powder.

I would have to say Blucher, as all in one box solution.

correction: sorry I meant to say I DON'T think BP is good for newbies.
: )

Lasalle for smaller battles, Blucher for big ones.
Both are very clearly written.
One comment I had on Lasalle from someone who is a gamer but not that into historical stuff
"It's nice to play Napoleonic rules which I can understand"

I think that says a lot about how well the rules are written.

I agree, Lasalle and Blucher are both very well written and could be good starter sets for someone with a bit more grey matter or that has some other gaming experience. The Blucher concept with the cards also get's them up and running quickly.
Overall though for a newbie I would start with a set that has no or very minimal command rules.

Empire.

;-)

Although I like to play at the grand tactical level (brigades as units), I think a "newbie" should experience the Napoleonic period at the battalion level.

Given that, I think I would probably choose something like Rank & File from Crusader games, which is very straightforward but still represents all the niceties, or perhaps Lasalle. I would definitely not inflict Black Powder on a newbie.

Another great option would be March Attack, again from Crusader Games – very streamlined indeed, big games, and fast moving – might be my first choice actually.

If I was going to go brigade level, I would pick V&B over Blucher – a bit more feel for the period, and you would be playing the game instead of minding the latest C&C gadgets.

What about Napoleon at War?

What about Napoleon at War?

TMP link

I'll add a vote for Blucher.

@ MajorB: Is that real?
Yesterday it worked…

Another vote for Neil Thomas Napoleonic rules

@ MajorB: Is that real?
Yesterday it worked…

Don't shoot the messenger. Try it yourself and see.

Command and Colors with minis (preferable) or the blocks (if you have no other choice) to get them a feel for basic tactics and the period.
Field of Battle is pretty straightforward and the cards help guide the player, though the pre-game setup would probably be better done by a veteran of the system.
Honestly, if the newbie's opponent is well-versed, any rule set would probably work. It's much easier to pick something up when someone can guide you through everything. If you are talking about someone learning on his/her own, then CC:N is a good starting point.

Depends on the scale of figures they want to play with. Black Powder would not be something I could recommend as it's too silly and not quite intended for new players. For smaller gamer, Lasalle is easy and concise enough to pick up and doesn't require a player to be an expert in the era. Blucher is too much like a board game (unless they enjoy that look and feeling). Shako works well for smaller scale figures playing larger battles. I think Grande Armee for mega battles.

Larry Brom's Before I was a Marshal, I was a Grenadier.

Where can you buy Lasalle in the U.K. looked at a few places and none seam to have it.

Empire.

Wait, hear me out!

If they are still interested in Napoleonics after a game of Empire, then you know they are REALLY interested!

Ok, if not Empire than either Shako or Napoleon's Battles.

Larry Brom's Before I was a Marshal, I was a Grenadier.

+1

Or, for simplicity, the Napoleonic option in Larry Brom's Bring Up the Guns.

Lasalle is out of print. You can download it in pdf from the honour website for 20 dollars or find a used copy.

For a newcomer I would recommend something like Neil Thomas's book as it contains background, and an explanation of the rules as well of the rules themselves.

Mike

Shako is good set also Piquet Field Of Battle

It's a no brainer…the Carnage and Glory Computer Moderated Rules offer the easiest and most seamless way for a new gamer to participate in Napoleonic gaming.

The player can concentrate on only a couple of key elements…what are the allowable formations, how far do my units move and fire, what causes and relieves fatigue, how are my units rated in training, experience and morale. Those are the basic elements any real commander would need to be aware of, not the minutia of fire tables, fire and morale modifiers, etc.

The CG system allows you to play the game and rely on the program to resolve fire and melee combats, apply morale loss and gain and determine the disposition of units at the end of the turn. With some basic knowledge of Napoleonic concepts a new player would enjoy the game immediately rather than spend their time interpreting the rules.

Something in which you can play those great battles from history in a very manageable form, yet doesn't require lots of hardware to get started – Richard Borg's "Command & Colors: Napoleonics" or Sam Mustafa's "Blucher".

Another vote for 'Before I was a Marshal…'

Been playing those rules for almost 50 years…they
DON'T wear out !

Rank and File is a very good game for beginners.

I can't help but think that a fifty year old rule is, most assuredly, worn out…;)

You don't need big armies to play Black Powder.

Yes, I've the Rebellion book and have seen it attempted with small armies. However, it is designed for divisional level miniature gaming and games are, in my opinion, awkward with modest forces.

I've only ever played Empire (not through choice, when I was young it was the only rule set we found!!) and whilst I don't want to get into problems around it….

I'm not a newbie. But I'd like something a bit less 'heavy' than Empire but allows you to control individual battalions, form square, line etc. In addition, my son and a few other friends have shown an interest lately after playing games like warhammer etc.

I started basing my figs at double empire (24 + men per battalion as I just don't like 12 man units).

Any suggestions?

thanks

Well, almost *anything* is simpler than Empire these days. ;)

However, especially considering gaming with your son and his friends, I would recommend, in order of relative "complexity" (none are really complex): Rank & File (straightforward march & shoot), Shako (time-tested classic, simple with a bit more to think about), and March Attack (also very streamlined, perhaps even more so than the rest, but designed for bigger battles). Lasalle is another option, at about the Shako level.

Going from experience with my own son and his friends, we tried both Black Powder and the ancients variant, Hail Caesar, and they were confused and agitated by the command system and the loose nature of the rules, so I would avoid gamist rules that are designed to give jaded gamers a new gimmick/twist. I would stick with simple "I go / You go" rules where the most they have to worry about is what formation is proper, and how to get their units in the right order.

If they get used to these rules and want more, you can always build on the basics.

Amonte, I think Lasalle fits your bill nicely.

" I would avoid gamist rules that are designed to give jaded gamers a new gimmick/twist."

As Inigo said: "I do not theenk that word means what you theenk it does…"

link

link

Inconceivable!

Well, you're referencing a four year old (at least) argument on what a single person (the infamously opaque Ron Edwards) thought about rpg theory, and the singular way he used an invented word … and even then they were complaining that people were commonly using the word in another, less exact way, as I am …

However, even with that aside, I think that I am using it correctly in this context, in the sense that in the GNS (Gamism/Narrativism/Simulationism) spectrum, "wargaming gamism" should logically refer to elements of the rules that exist simply to challenge the players, i.e. simply creating challenges for the sake of providing challenges.

Anybody want a peanut?

LaSalle. Great mechanics, easy to understand.

I quite like the sound of LaSalle having read a review but can't for the life of me find where to buy it…

any ideas?

It's only available in pdf now, I think from the Honour series website …

link

link

Any but Empire. Empire for a newbie would put them into brain lock. Actually I can't recommend any.

The LaSalle rules are so poorly organized that I had to put post-it notes on the pages sticking up and wrote on them so I can find stuff like oh say movement, firing or combat when I needed them. Minor stuff like that.

Actually the best way to get into the period is to join a group of experience players who are already familiar with a set of rules. That is, if your lucky enough to be near such a group.

I think La Feu Sacre III gives a great game for a newbie, and it's only 7GBP as a downloadable PDF.