"Bradley Dismounts TO&E for Team Yankee? " Topic

Anyone come up with a Bradley platoon dismounts for Team Yankee yet?

Open to discussing game card values, squad and section sizes, and troop types/weapons mixes for the mid-1980s.

From what I've seen from the publication, FM7-7J (reference to a link is provided below), it appears that the four vehicle Bradley platoon consists of two squads of 9 men, but since it was published in May of 1993, I'm not 100% sure it is appropriate for the mid-1980s TO&E.

I would have guessed them going for 3 x squads of eight men each, given the military's general preference for triangular platoon formations of 3 squads instead, so perhaps that was experimented with back in the day.

I don't have the TY rules yet, but from the breakdown of the number of "passengers" the IFVs/APCs can carry, it seems as if the rules use individual squad sections of 3 – 4 men for their bases, at a 1:1 ratio. If anyone can confirm that, I'd appreciate it.

Given discussions around this subject in the past, it seems as if each squad would be equipped with the following:

So, for the two squad in the four Bradleys, I'm suggesting two squads made up of the following:

1 x Squad Leader with M16, or M16/M203
1 x M60 Gunner
1 x M60 assistant gunner with M16
1 x M16A2 Auto-Rifle
1 x M16/Dragon Gunner

1 x Team Leader with M16/M203
1 x M16A2 Auto-Rifle
1 x M16
1 x M16/Dragon Gunner

The HQ section of five men remaining probably consists of the following:

1 x Platoon Leader
1 x Radio Operator
1 x Medic

1 x Forward Observer *
1 x Radio Operator *

Note – there are actually two FOs, and two radio operators in the platoon, so one more of each will be mixed in with the squad sections (probably together I suspect, and in a different two-vehicle section than for the Plt. Ldr., so they can operate individually if needed, and communicate with one another.

It's unclear to me how the two, nine man squads break down into their sections, from the way they are carried in their vehicles.

Anyone think the above is close, or workable?

I've also read that the M249 was introduced in 1984, but from most of the feedback here on TMP, and what is published, it appears that few if any units received them prior to the end of the Cold War in 1989. Apparently, there were some issues with them, so most were withheld until that could be fixed.

Perhaps some might be available in some units, to replace the M60 MG, and/or the AR-16A2 "auto-rifles".

See here for more background info on the subject:

From researching and doing a bit of reading of previous postings, it appears that the four vehicle US Army platoon, consisted of 2 x 9 man squads, plus a few extra men, for good measure. This is from the FM7-7J link someone posted here on TMP:

TMP link

Some of the other discussions appear to be for post-Cold War units, so their orgs don't really apply, I suspect:

TMP link

The US airborne TO&E is given below, which was posted by a member here on TMP:

"I was with 3/187( Hi Rakkasan !), '80-'83. I was a Rifle Plt Ldr, '80-'81, we had no SAWs only M16s with "close-pin" bipods … We had no weapons squad, in the Plt. A Rifle Squad (11 men) had 1 M60, 2 M203s, 1 Dragon(he also carrier an M16) 2 M16s with "close-pins" and everyone else carrier M16s … So essentially we had no SAWs. And very few ammo vests for the 203s … we made due…".

TMP link

After looking a bit closer at the TY Mech. Inf. cards, seems to me 4 x Mech. Inf. units/sections (like those for the M113) would work as is, plus an HQ section, as long as no Brads are lost (two sections/passenger units per squad of troops).

It gets a bit messy with 1.5 sections (six men) to a Bradley, once you start losing vehicles.

For those, perhaps a 2+ to "Save" for a 5 – 6 man section/unit, and a 5+ "Save" for a two man section/unit, if you want to keep track of those.

I'm guessing a BLOB of grunts will jump out of each Bradley with the weapons values averaged out across the platoon. You might get 2 small 3 man bases.

But Bradleys are not in the game yet.

I went with a mix of 2 man, 3 man and 4 man bases. Each M2 dismounted 6 men [either 3+3 or 4+2] which could then be rearranged into 3x7 man squads + a 3 man HQ or indeed you could do 2 x 9 man and a 6 man HQ.

Little was known about Bradley platoons when I did mine [early 90s] and I think the US army were still trying to figure it out.

Interest within my group was dying out and I don't think I ever used my flexibly based troops in a game.

They will be for me, since I don't have any M113s yet, sadly.

Gonna try the rules out in 1/144th scale too (blasphemy, I know, but economics rule), and possibly 1/285th, later.

Lots of other stats I've been working on as well, to do earlier Cold War battle, with existing kit I've got on hand.

I prefer the 3 x 8 man squads, since that's nice and clean, but will try it with the others as well.

There really isn't a huge issue either way, until you lose a track, and then only have half a fireteam for one unit.

I think this is an issue that the Army is still figuring out and isn't happy with. I think the current configuration is a HQ team, three rifle squads, and somehow they squeeze in two M240 mgs. It has changed over the years as they fiddle around with the platoon's organization to try to shoehorn a small platoon's worth of men into what is effectively a light tank.

Maybe next time they should design the carrier around the squad rather than design the squad around a carrier!

Here's a nice article about the Bradley platoon:

link

Oh, this looks interesting too! This thread follows the Bradley platoon's development over the years. Sergeant Bellavia's "House to House" book got the original poster of the thread to do some research. This TO&E might be more useful to you.

Here's the thread for it:

link

Interesting stuff. The mounted element looks like a tank platoon with two sections of two vehicles. That's how we tanks operated back in the day.

Nah, that's crazy talk, Tgunner.

LOL !

Yeah, I'm getting soft in the head.

You really should get the M113 kit. It is a really good set with lots of goodies in it… too many really. I'm still torn about what to do with mine. Do I go mech, go mortar, go 'Nam and build ACAVs? The choices you have are mind boggling really.

Back to the original post, you might want to add another Dragon team to the existing mech infantry organization. From what I see a Brad platoon's dismounts are much like the M113 platoon's in that you have effectively a mg team and a Dragon team in vehicle, but the difference is that the PL's track now has a Dragon gunner in it as well. The M113 platoons had just a Dragon in each squad.

You might want to check out this link too. It's the rules for the old Team Yankee game. What's useful here is Frank Chadwick's discussion on US forces during the time of the book. This game is dated 1987 so it should be pretty accurate to the 1985 period.

link

Frank discusses the mech company/platoon/squad on page 20. Interesting stuff.

Yea, I've definitely got those on the list, but am torn between using them for US Armored Cav., US Mech. Inf., and/or West German Panzergrenadiers.

I probably just need to bite the bullet and do all three. At least the Armored Cav. and US Mech. can pull double duty for one another.

The TO&E Yahoo group has the following Bradley organization in their files section
Mechanized Company 1980s

CHQ: 1 M2
1 M113
1 Jeep/HMMWV
12 M16A1

PHQ: M2
6 M16A1
(3 M60 + tripods)

3 Sects: M2
3 Crew (M16A1)
2 M16A1
2 M203
2 M249(SAW)
(1 M47 Dragon)
(up to 10 M72 LAW)

Weapons Platoon:

PHQ: Jeep/HMMWV
2 M16

AT Sect: 2 M901

Mortar Sect: M113A2/3 (inc MOP)
3 M125

There are additional diagrams in the link provided by Tgunner. The fourth diagram in the link is from FM 3-21.71 see link section 1-7

Thanks for sharing that info, williamb.

I like the text listing you've provided above, and will probably go with it, and/or the two-squad option, instead.

Three sounds more reasonable to me, given typical US doctrine.

What's confusing are the various options of anywhere from 6/7 passengers per track, to as many as 9. The latter seems to really be pushing it.

From the links posting you provided, and the other listings I've seen, it appears as is the squads usually operate as two different sections, in most cases.

However, given the number of SAWs in a squad, and if incorporating the M60s from the Plt. HQ into the mix, it seems to me that from an operational standpoint, the M60 team would probably best serve as a separate section within the squad, and be used to create a fire base when attacking, while each of the two other sections gets a SAW, M16, and M203. It would also be free to attach to one section of the squad, or other, as needed, on offense, or defense.

I noticed some of the diagrams mention the M2A3, and the Javelin, so they're obviously from the post-Cold War period.