"M2 Bradley Crew/Passanger distribution" Topic

For reference I am looking at 1980-85 time frame.

Hows does a 28 man platoon (3 squads of nine, plus Platoon commander) fit into 4 M2 Bradley fighting Vehicles that have a passanger capacity of six each, 24 seats.

I am thinking, but I am not sure, that some of the 28 men in the dismounted element are also crew members, i.e some commanders get out. This would leave just the gunner and driver in the vehicle.

Is that correct? How does this work exatcly? Or were the actually platoons smaller?

Thanks

Don't forget the Platoon Sergeant and Medic. Also, the U.S. Army has Platoon Leaders not commanders. It's an important distinction.

That being said the crews of the vehicles are drawn from the squads. I'm not sure who does what. I want to say the PL and PSG are both stuck in tracks as are two of the Squad Leaders. I could be wrong, I've never been in a mech unit.

Memory test for me (never a good thing), but I think the early 1980s Pl was significantly different. The FAS website had a version of the manual that subsequently vanished.

I think the Pl was just two Squads, Pl HQ and an FAO team. There were still four M2s, in two 'sections' of two each. Also recall the Pl Sgt stayed in the turret of one track, allowing the Pl Lt to dismount.

From what I can tell the more current Pl has three squads of 9 men each, but I think the M2 is supposed to seat 3+7 now to fit everyone in (possibly doing away with some of the TOW reloads)?

Gary

Try here: link

I don't think the current PLT coniguration is much different than in the late '80s. The BN organization is very different however.

The platoon organization for Mechanized Infantry units equipped with the M2 Bradley IFV hasn't changed since the Force XXI restructure ("new" F-series TOEs). This organization was also included in the Limited Conversion Divisions. The original Bradley TOEs (J-series and the first Army of Excellence L-series TOE) were different.

In answer to the original question: they don't. The organization for mounted operations is generally different from that of dismounted operations. To emphasize this point, in the original J-series TOE, the weapons element was never intended to operate with the rest of the platoon during mounted operations (the weapons element was subsequently deleted entirely from the L-series TOE onward, making the mechanized infantry platoon the only one in the Army to not have a weapons squad).

In the field, attrition makes it easier as well (which is probably why the Vehicle Section is authorized one spare gunner too). The troop capacity of the M2A2 ODS/M2A3 is also 7 apparently, which further eases this. The Platoon Leader and his RATELO are also supposed to ride in one of the tracks (with the Platoon Leader as the track commander). The Platoon Sergeant is also a track commander.

Just remember that the paper organization is a "perfect world" organization. A good starting place for sure, but not necessarily what one might see in the field.

Here is the mounted organization presented in FM 7-7J dated 7 May 1993:

-BFV 1-
Crew:
1x Platoon Leader
1x Senior Gunner
1x Vehicle Driver

Team A, 1st Squad:
1x Bradley Gunner (swaps places with Platoon Leader on dismount)
1x Team Leader w/ M16A2
1x Automatic Rifleman w/ M249
1x Grenadier w/ M16A2 and M203
1x Anti-Armor Specialist w/ M16A2 (also designated to use the M136 or SU-36 if available)
1x Forward Observer w/ M16A2

-BFV 2-
Crew:
1x Master Sergeant
1x Senior Gunner
1x Vehicle Driver

Team B, 1st Squad:
1x Squad Leader w/ M16A2
1x Team Leader w/ M16A2
2x Automatic Rifleman w/ M249
1x Anti-Armor Specialist w/ M16A2 (also designated to use the M136 or SU-36 if available)
1x Platoon RATELO w/ M16A2

-BFV 3-
Crew:
1x Staff Sergeant
1x Senior Gunner
1x Vehicle Driver

Team B, 2nd Squad:
1x Squad Leader w/ M16A2
1x Team Leader w/ M16A2
2x Automatic Rifleman w/ M249
1x Anti-Armor Specialist w/ M16A2 (also designated to use the M136 or SU-36 if available)

-BFV 4-
Crew:
1x Platoon Sergeant
1x Senior Gunner
1x Vehicle Driver

Team A, 2nd Squad:
1x Team Leader w/ M16A2
1x Automatic Rifleman w/ M249
1x Grenadier w/ M16A2 and M203
1x Anti-Armor Specialist w/ M16A2 (also designated to use the M136 or SU-36 if available)
1x Aidman
1x Forward Observer/RATELO

The dismounted element would consist of 2 squads of 9 men, plus the Platoon HQ.

PDF link

Bradley mounted platoon info starts on page 2 towards the bottom. Picture of manning on page 4. Obviously it shows full manning, which may not always be the case.

Doctrinally, the PSG controls the mounted section and the PL controls the dismounted section when the platoon dismounts. PSG is more experienced and ensures proper support to the dismounted element and can better handle evac and other logistics. He can also take over when the LT gets himself capped.

Hooah. Bradleys get crowded, smell like ass and feet, and generally are no fun to be stuck in the back of.

But that 25mm is nice to have available.

Jake

Thanks for the replies and this is all good information.

The link GuyG13 provided points to a more current organization when you can seat 7 in the Bradley. The original Bradley could only seat 6 passangers. Is that correct?

Does someone have a link to the ealier Bradley platoon/Company organizations from 1980-1985 time period.

thatguy96,

You mention the weapons element was not included. What part of the 28 men Platoon would that be and what weapons did they take with them?

Thanks

The J-series and initial L-series element is shown above. Its the 2 9-man squads and the platoon HQ. The entire distribution is shown. The Platoon's MG section was five additional men, a section leader, and 2 gunners (with M240s) and 2 assistant gunners with M16A2s. This section was never intended to be mounted and would only operate with the platoon in a dismounted scenario. This is the appropriate structure for the 1980-1985 time frame.

The organization presented in GuyG13's link is the Force XXI/LCD organization, which has remained unchanged in the modular force structure.

thatguy96,

Thank you for the clarification. Would the M240s be M60s in the early eighties?

What mode of transportation did the MG section have?

Yes, it would most likely have M60s in the 1980s. I wasn't thinking about that when I typed it. Though mentioned in the 1993 manual, its worth nothing that they were still listed as M240E4s, which shows that the 1993 manual reflected a transition. The M240E4 wasn't standardized as the M240B until sometime in 1996 I believe.

There was no transportation provided for the MG section to my understanding. The section was not factored into the operations of the unit during mounted operations.

I think I found the proper link

link

Good link Louie … That is something that always bothered us old Mech types … was the fewer dismounts as compared to the M113 – 11 man Squad(with 9 Dismounts). Of course the M2 is a much better AFV overall compared to the M113 … Given the choice … I'd take the M2 …