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"Napoleonic flag sizes part 2" Topic


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jwebster27 Dec 2015 12:45 a.m. PST

I started a thread on the Napoleonic board before I realized that there is a flag and banner board
TMP link


I noticed that most pictures of miniatures have flags that are much larger than they actually were.

Here is a picture I did, with an 18mm AB figure with flags of different sizes. 1x is about the 80cm that this flag should have been

picture

Summarizing the advice from the other thread
- size them bigger to get the look you want on the table
- commercial flags are usually oversized
- those French flags were very small compared to flags of other nations as Napoleon wanted to emphasise the eagle
- use a laser printer for best results

The pole is piano wire I will cut it to size when I figure out what size flag I am going to do. Thinking the 1.75x at the moment

Thanks

John

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2015 3:13 a.m. PST

That is great. Would love to see how small…even smaller…you feel an equivalent cavalry "flag" should be.

Very clever piece of work

Personal logo Swampster Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2015 4:30 a.m. PST

I'd be inclined to go with one of the smaller flags. Part of the different look of armies is the appearance of the colours and that includes their size. To keep the comparative size of, say, British flags then you'd get a flag looking like it was 10 or 12 foot on a side.

MajorB27 Dec 2015 5:01 a.m. PST

I'd be inclined to go with one of the smaller flags. Part of the different look of armies is the appearance of the colours and that includes their size.

Agreed!

Timmo uk27 Dec 2015 6:10 a.m. PST

Also agree. No bigger than 1.25. Pole should be a scale 9' to 10', no longer.

Outlaw Tor27 Dec 2015 8:46 a.m. PST

I always wonder at those that might take weeks or even years to determine some relatively obscure feature/color for a miniature for accuracy and debate the issue with vigor and then hang an out sized flag on the unit.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2015 9:40 a.m. PST

But it is like everything else…it is the size that matters (weep)

wrgmr127 Dec 2015 11:29 a.m. PST

I used to like the large flags that come from GMB as the Prussian ones below are, but have found recently that they seem too large.

[URL=http://s219.photobucket.com/user/tjm3/media/Saulute%202015/Plancenoit/IMG_8089.jpg.html]

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PhilinYuma Inactive Member27 Dec 2015 11:41 a.m. PST

But it is like everything else…it is the size that matters (weep)

And the ability to keep it up. The size of British infantry colours of our period was the same as that of the clothing book regulations of 1768.

The guidons of the cavalry were a reasonable 27"x41" but infantry colours were a massive 72"x78", 39 sq', and there is at least one account of a young ensign, clutching his colour, securely held in its leather pouch,
and being knocked over barse ackward by a strong gust of
wind.

So at 1/72 scale the British colour should be 1"x1/12"

Cheers,
Phil

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2015 2:32 p.m. PST

I personally prefer more realistic size flags and banners. The hugely oversized flags just don't look right to me.

And as far as being blown over by a gust of wind, I was marching in a divisional pass-in-review at Fort Hood in the 1970s. Our brigade color guard had to link arms to keep the brigade color-bearer from being blown down to the Gulf of Mexico by the stiff northerly wind we had that day.

Jim

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2015 7:23 p.m. PST

Didn't the French leave their flags cased and only carry the eagle into battle? Or is that a Christmas cookie overdose induced error on my part?

jwebster27 Dec 2015 11:26 p.m. PST


Didn't the French leave their flags cased and only carry the eagle into battle? Or is that a Christmas cookie overdose induced error on my part?

Yes, although some infantry regiments might have kept a colour I read that the cavalry rarely carried their flag

That knowledge will of course not stop me from making flags :)

John

von Winterfeldt27 Dec 2015 11:49 p.m. PST

they carried the eagle with colours unfurled – I am surprised that quite a few people would prefer not over the top enlarged colours or standards.

As for British colours, they were partly furled to carry into battle

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2015 3:37 a.m. PST

On the march everyone had their colours protected by a waterproof cover, obviously. But, going into action, even the smaller flags served a purpose as a recognisable rallying point, so out they came. Always strikes me as odd that cavalry did not seem to find the same need…after all, they were more likely to scatter! OK they were also more likely to lose the "flag" of course……..

Personally, I would only wish for the French flags to be smaller…..simply because that was the notable thing about them. The full size flags were massive things anyway…a little bigger makes no difference I think

marshalGreg28 Dec 2015 7:34 a.m. PST

It's all about compromises?
@ Jwebster excellent post!

I think mine came out about equivalent/too slightly larger than to your 1.25 size description.
This allowed British flags to not get too large and the cav flags too small )( made my cav flags at or just under your x1 size. Made the regt. numbers slightly oversize.
So both the inf and cav. regt. number can be seen with only some amount of eye magnification on my 15s.
Been pretty happy with the move to these sizes.

Having difficulty with the fannions for the 3rd, 4th and 6th battalions.
Looking forward/ enjoy your look at this…

MG

Timmo uk28 Dec 2015 8:45 a.m. PST

I'm fairly sure that the French stopped carrying the regimental flags into action by about 1809/1810, at least in the Peninsula.

von Winterfeldt29 Dec 2015 12:58 a.m. PST

"I'm fairly sure that the French stopped carrying the regimental flags into action by about 1809/1810, at least in the Peninsula."

any source on this?

Mac1638 Inactive Member29 Dec 2015 5:53 a.m. PST

Remember that they are wargames figures,you are representing a battalion of men with 24 figures or there abouts.
It's what looks rights, I lean towards the slightly over size flags and colours.
I give ALL my French battalion an Eagle and Colours, I know it's wrong (only the 1st battalion), they looks a lot better than when I had the 2nd + battalions with battalion marker flags.

julianmizzi07 Jan 2016 7:55 a.m. PST

I know of some folks who use 25mm infantry flags on their 18mm's which looks good.

I use brass wire and cut them 3.5cm long which seems to work fine.

Widowson07 Jan 2016 1:57 p.m. PST

The photos show the Model 1804 flag, and the smallest one shown is correct for size.

Important to know that the 1812 version was larger (I think), and the 1815 larger still.

janner08 Jan 2016 12:11 a.m. PST

When a subaltern in a county infanrty regiment (prior to our joining the Light Division), I had the privlege of being a member of the colour party on a number of occasions. Even furled, they were quite a handful and a modest wind made freedom parades (bayonets fixed and colours flying) an interesting experience! grin

Markconz08 Jan 2016 1:01 a.m. PST

Another argument I've heard from some for making them bigger is that the people were also smaller back then. Personally I don't like flags that are too big, 1.25x is good for French.

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