"Flag sizes" Topic

Being of unsound mind I have been experimenting with printing out my own flags

According to a couple of places, the French 1804 flags were about 80cm. Call that 3', about half the "figure size"

So an 18mm flag would be 9mm x 9mm (already a little oversized)

Pictures I see online of other peoples' armies look as though the flags are larger

So how much larger is artistic license and how much would get me laughed off the table ?

Thanks

John

You should never get laughed off the table, regardless
of how large/small your units' flags were/are.

Many use a bit oversized so they can distinguish the
units (regimental number, etc.).

If anyone objects, tell 'em you did that way 'cause
L'Empereur himself gave you permission while you
had dinner with him one evening….

So how much larger is artistic license and how much would get me laughed off the table ?

Whatever makes you happy. Not Naps but in other periods (eg ACW) I make the flags larger than scale dictates because they look better.

with printing out my own flags

Tip: Unless you have a state of the art laser colour printer, save your sized flags on a USB. Buy a ream of top quality printer paper. Go to a stationary chain store that has the aforementioned printer (Officeworks here) & get them to print off your sheets. It'll be, if you pack the pages, very few & hence, cheap.

Your flags will have the colour & detail of commercial ones.

Second the above two replies very very distinguished gentlemen of who I know and play against one of them!
Happy Flag making!
I have some 100 hrs in mine, to date!

MG

I've gone up to about 125% of the true scaled size. I don't like really large flags as I think they distort the overall look of the units and the table.

I'd suggest doing a trial sheet however it is printed so you can gauge for yourself the optimum size that you prefer. I'd suggest the bigger the unit the more leeway you'll have with the flag size.

I find that most nations flags lend themselves to realistic scale dimensions. However, the French flags were deliberately small in 1804 as the eagle was the important symbol. They got a bit bigger in 1812 and 1815. Therefore, I use the excellent GMB flags which are a bit bigger but still look right. Based upon this, a 1804 French flag of 25mm x 25mm look okay. (Remember to add a bit to wrap around the flag pole.)

some colours especially French ones of some preducers are enormously oversized which I find it is a pity but seemingly this is a customers trend who like mega large colours

I recommend making the flag as large as comfortably fits on the flagpole (assuming it's a pose that allows the whole flag visible). When the flag is smaller it just doesn't look quite right.

I would go with Murvihill. But in the end, I think it is a subjective decision to a degree. The difficulty, particularly for small scales, is that the thickness of the staff is grossly out of scale. For small flags, like the French, if you make them proper scale size, then the flag seems tiny in relation to the amount visible on the staff. To correct this I think you need to scale up the flag so that the eye is drawn to the flag, not the piece on the pole. Just my two cents.

Mollinary

My pennyworth. The "best known" flag makers (No names, but we all know………) freely admit that their products are oversized. Their market is going to be largely wargamers, who see flags as useful identifying symbols, across a crowded table.

For the same reason, the Scots Greys, the Household Brigade, the French Hussars, the "lightest" French Legere will all charge into action with a guidon, a pennant or even an eagle. Totally wrong, but looks great.

"Pure" modellers will never make the fortunes of such producers.

I must agree with von W. however. I would prefer the flags, of the quality that we take for granted, (my recent Gendarmes and Mamelukes…pre 1815….from GMB….wow) to be that bit smaller. This especially applies to French cavalry standards, 1815 or, even more, the earlier lozenge version. But I am grateful for what we do get……

We failed already in training our eye that we come to such conclusions that standards and colours of right dimesnionssn – don't look right, the usual Hollywood syndrome.

I agree deadhead, beggars can't be chosers, it is a wargaming market and not for modellers.

From the horse's mouth, Grahame at GMB sent me a response on this some time ago. I did post some of it and I am sure he will not mind if I quote a fraction;

"Re the flags. Yes, they are exaggerated – a lot of people like them that way so their old eyes can make out the detail.
The 1804 French cavalry flags were 60cm square – by my theory of scaling that should translate to 12mm…They are actually between 16 and 17mm on the staff. I sell these to wargamers who also like to use them as identification markers – hence the scale creep.
Below is a bit of text that I'm working on and will add to the site at some point. It explains my sizing,".

What follows was quite fascinating, but it is his work and I have plagiarised enough….not sure if he did post it in the end

I like my flags big enough to wrap the entire command group in. Just kidding! But I do like them a bit oversized.

Like the women in my life (unfortunately)

Merry Christmas all

Yes, some flags (especially French and Polish) were very small. Polish flags were 50cm square or thereabouts. After using true scale flags with my 15mm figures for some years, I decided "Sod this: I want flags that I can actually see on the table" and increased their size by 50$ or thereabouts. Back then the only printed flags on the market were by Revo and they were true scale, so I painted my own flags. As more companies produced printed flags, they too often went with over-scale designs, because that's what people seem to want. When I worked on the AB Figures trade-stand, an awful lot of people would buy the '25mm' flags instead of the '15mm' versions.

Funny how you can phrase something wrongly. I did not mean that the women in my life were unfortunately oversized…………what I meant was…Oh forget it.

Does anyone know how to contact Grahame at GMB? He had great info on this subject, but I am reluctant to reproduce what he sent me, without his consent. He has worked out scales/original dimensions/fringes and proportions/changing fashions in that era etc

I always print my own flags off my computer where I compose them with Corel Draw. It works wonders. The size of them is large, and would be about in scale 6 ft for my 18th century collection. This allows all sorts of detail. It's a bit large for the period, but who cares. They look good!

BE ADVISED THOUGH!!!!

Printing our your flags is good, but the printing is not color fast. They will fade over time if subjected to strong light and even normal room light. So unless you keep them in boxes they WILL fade and have to be replaced! This fortunately is not a problem. All you have to make is simple "boots" or envelopes from construction paper to slilp over the flag when not in use and they will go for decades. I use another matter too where the flag staff is soldered into the color bearer's hands, and the flag itself is wrapped around a piece of small brass tubing the interior dimension of which 'telescopes" over the staff. Thus you can remove the flag and replace it easily if it gets too faded or damaged. This method is also good for the Renaissance or 17th century where you want to switch units around from one side to the other.

Oh yes… Because I deal in imagi-nations each infantry regiment in the 18th century army has TWO colors, one a national color and the other the regimental color.