"40K please enlighten me" Topic

Alright, I am curious with all this talk of how much more popular 40K is than WFB going since AOS came along.

My question is why? I've never played or watched a game and have no knowledge of the rules. I like many of the minis and vehicles. I've nearly bought some many times just to build and paint. The closest I've ever been is I bought some goblin regiments and the seller put them in a Imperial Guard Manticore (which looks pretty cool btw).

I just have a difficult time even imagining how this works out with the huge tanks and uber powerful weapons. Isn't the normal, let alone, 20' table a bit small for the ranges and areas of effect weapons? Woulnd't they be able to reach anywhere on the table in a single move? And doesn't it get to the "parking lot" level so there's no maneuver?

I'm sure there are rules to balance this out but it just seems the scale of this would be so far off as to be very unrealistic.

I don't know enough to dislike the game but the thought of every game being a tactical nuclear strike puts me off.

So gents, what do you like about the game.

I don't use much of the big stuff when I play. I like the background and the models. The rules work pretty well for doing what they represent.

I don't think that there is any reason to play with the big stuff if you don't want to do so.

Here is one of my battle reports with no big stompy anything:

TMP link

Here is another:

TMP link

The background is brilliant.

The prices and rules are .

Seek alternatives.

'My question is why? I've never played or watched a game and have no knowledge of the rules. I like many of the minis and vehicles. I've nearly bought some many times just to build and paint. The closest I've ever been is I bought some goblin regiments and the seller put them in a Imperial Guard Manticore (which looks pretty cool btw).'

Why do I play? Because it is popular enough that I don't have to teach everyone how to play it. I like the history of the game, at least the original version, enough to put up with some of the shenanigans. But honestly, I've tried to replace it locally several times and too many people only want to play one rule set for me to be able to make the switch…. but I will keep pushing for other rules…

'I just have a difficult time even imagining how this works out with the huge tanks and uber powerful weapons. Isn't the normal, let alone, 20' table a bit small for the ranges and areas of effect weapons? Woulnd't they be able to reach anywhere on the table in a single move? And doesn't it get to the "parking lot" level so there's no maneuver?'

The rules are not great, but they are workable. As a rule of thumb, like many other companies, plan for the most expensive army to have the largest advantage. It may require a little bit of tweaking, but generally the person with the newest and most expensive models has the greatest advantage – vehicle or otherwise.

'I'm sure there are rules to balance this out but it just seems the scale of this would be so far off as to be very unrealistic.'

It's not balanced. But it is better than a lot of other games out there. If you want to play competitive, the best thing to do is look for the most effective list out there and buy accordingly. It will give you a statistical advantage that can be significant. That being said, you can make viable armies from other builds, but it is much harder. Which can be fun on it's own. Personally, I work to build a list which is viable, but not too powerful. It can be very hard to build an army that only wins about 1/2 the time.

'I don't know enough to dislike the game but the thought of every game being a tactical nuclear strike puts me off.'

Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

'So gents, what do you like about the game.'

Very fun universe, if you use the Rogue Trader setting. It gets way to grim-darker otherwise. Too many heroes are forced to eat their own intestines to prove their resolve for my taste, but ymmv.

Other than that, the ease of finding other players is the only real draw. I post a game for a random rule set, I get 0 players locally. Put up a post for 40k, and I get 3-5 players. Go figure.

@Pictors That was a great game and write up. Very cool. Love the buzz saw table. Thanks for sharing that!

@Capt O yeah, having real live opponents would be a good thing.

Bigger better badder (aka newer) = same ole song.

Well, it sounds like the fluff is what draws people in much like WFB. I do really like those Forge World Death Korp of Kriegers. But now you're talking some $$$'s. :-)

I just have a difficult time even imagining how this works out with the huge tanks and uber powerful weapons. Isn't the normal, let alone, 20' table a bit small for the ranges and areas of effect weapons?

Two part answer:

First; those big huge overprice models and tanks are bringing in money to GW. Sure they have no place on the tabletop but that is not there point.

They are there for GW Fanboyz to buy 2-3 of them at $120 USD-$200 a piece.

Second; yes weapon ranges in the future will only have a range of around 150 feet.

Which is why they carry all those big swords and hammers.

Because having tanks on the table is a better ROI than having tanks at either end of the room or block shooting at each other. It also decreases their gaming power, that AT-43 'suffered' because the AFVs would destroy all infantry on turn 1.

Or, rationalising is pointless as its just a game.

Its a fun game with great background stories and cool miniatures. 7th edition is balanced better than the previous editions IMO. For the most part, the superheavies can be taken down fast if they aren't protected. If you try to play tournaments, the TFGs will roll out the most unbalanced bits of the game and punish the casual player (as it has always been, and not just in 40k). But if playing for fun with reasonable people, its pretty good. Play with painted stuff on nice looking terrain. That will help.

Something of a disingenuous argument. Ground scale to figure scale, weapons ranges and firepower effectiveness could be ridiculed in almost any miniatures game…. except maybe one simulating sumo wrestling.

Name your game of choice and it too could be ridiculed.

Except that GW used to claim that 1" on the table was approximately 2m.

Yes, the relationship between shooting and movement distances does somewhat produce a game of maneuver. But that's about it.

I used to play 40k because I could walk into the FLGS and get a game in with some random stranger, no problems. Then the rules got too expensive to own everything, which I'd done for 3e and 4e, and started to do with 5e. And the game itself turned into an arms race, where if you didn't have the latest and greatest models for that edition (flyers and AAA, then knights/superheavies) you were going to lose.

Now I play Infinity.

The draw of 40K to me has always been the cool looking miniatures/models and the variety available. It has something for everyone, whether you prefer large infantry armies, lots of tanks or giant robots. I am a bit of everything as my armies include Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Eldar, Tau and Imperial Knights.

There are other games with similar quality miniatures like Warmahordes, but their aesthetics just doesn't do it for me. Top heavy Steampunk metal gladiators aren't my thing I guess. To each his own.

BTW this should be on the Warhammer 40K board instead of Warhammer.

Lol. I didn't even know 40k had its own board. If bill wants to move it there I wouldn't right my congressman.

I guess all I saw was the giant armies with 10 plus tanks on eBay, YouTube & blogs I envisioned FOW style hub to hub games as the norm. Just with bigger tanks. It really sounds like the fluff is where it's at. and like anything you just have to do it right.

Fun game. There is no ruleset anywhere that can prevent a jerk from being a jerk. Play it with friends.

What do I like about 40k:
- The art
- The fluff
- The minis
- The idea

The rules: Meh…

The reason why GW stuff is so popular is because it was always the most easily available game around (last 25 years or so).