"1/72 prepackaged tanks are really 1/60" Topic

1/72 pre made dragon and other companies toy/model armour is too big.

I think it is 1/60.

thoughts?

i am referring to these type of products

Okay I'll bite. Why do you think this?

Given the Dragon ones are the same size as their model kits and the other 1/72 ones… I dont think they are…

because 1/72 italieri,airfix etc and other companyseem 1/2 the size

postimg.org/image/58m0b1rw5

Here are four of my tanks two are the toys (german)the others (by and ab)are normal kits..all say 1/72.

A medium tank and a heavy tank are much bigger than a light tank and an armoured car? Hmm, I wonder why that might be…. If you've got doubts about the scale, just take out a ruler and measure it, but I think you're very much barking up the wrong tree here….

airfix are likely to be 1/76

No, he's right. Look at the second photo. The figures are much smaller than the tanks. That can't be right, can it?

an autoblinda is about the size of a pz38 or m13/40.a BT-5 is just a little bit smaller than a pz4 chassis (whirblewind)

The 1/76 and 1/72 problem has been refered to already but is this range supposed to be a constant scale or just "fit the box"?

Im not sure what the photo is proving. That a Sturmtiger is bigger than an Autoblinda?

A Sturmtiger is nearly twice as wide as an Autoblinda and longer too.

I've measured mine.

I suggest you buy a ruler and a calculator and dig out a reference book or two.

Mine are 1/72.

John T

In their day Matchbox AFVs were 1/76; Esci 1/72; and Airfix vaguely inbetween. …And still are as they line up on my table here.

Dragon and PSC StuGs with AB crew… Dragon StuG is on far left;

Hello I also don't want this to be true as I possess both models and want to use all of them, nicer professional tone please.

anyway here is a more recent photo of a stug and the wirblewind

both pz4 chassis

The Stug's not a Panzer IV chassis, but the smaller Panzer III, and quite possibly isn't 1/72 though…. Please allow me to repeat – PICK UP A RULER AND MEASURE IT. Ahem. This really isn't difficult – 30 seconds with Google gets figures of 5.89 to 5.92 metres for the Wirbelwind. If we call that 5900 millimetres, 1/72 should be about 82mm long, and 1/60 would mean 98mm. So which is it…?

I don't have it in front of me but I have measured Dragon's Sherman M4A1 1/72nd scale before and it matched up almost perfectly (allowing for vagaries in how the measurements were taken) with the dimensions of an actual Sherman, once those dimensions were reduced to 1/72nd scale. It is easy to do. The dimensions of vehicles are easy to find, simply take them, divide by 72, the measure the model.

The Wirbelwind isnt a Dragon model though is it. Im guessing its the Amercom one?

Also what make is the StuG in the photo?

Without knowing what the actual brands are, the picture is a little meaningless.

almost all of the 1/72 diecast models are only a mm or 2 out of exact scale, hardly noticeable in reality, as the main companies like dragon or revell spent quite a bit of time in research I doubt they would be that wrong.
all the amercom, altaya and fabbri models I have had all seem fine to me.
you also cannot compare a different vehicle, you need several models of the same ie Sherman m4a3 to compare size wise.
that stug in the last pic could be an airfix one (1/76) or even roco, (1/87th) smaller again than a 72 scale pz4.
1/60th models are much larger, when you have spent as long as I have making masters of vehicles you get to know when something looks odd.

The Stug is clearly in a different scale than the Pz IV chassis. The dimensional differences of the chassis are not nearly so great. I'm guessing that the Stug is actually a 1/87 scale model, maybe Roco, or some other HO scale manufacturer.

Lighten up guys, scaling is easy for those of us who do it all of the time. Can be a little befuddling to those who don't.

True, but to start a thread stating several entire ranges are the wrong size without actually measuring a single model seems somewhat perverse. Maybe I'm just getting grumpier than usual though – possibly time to quit for a while.

not a huge size difference between bt series -pz3 and pz4 (my mistake)

anyways,no worries-my mistake to have brought it up

cheers

not a mistake to bring it up if you are unsure.
that is what we experts are all here for!

I hope that chart didn't take longer to find than a ruler but I am glad you are happy… ;o)

It's never a mistake to query something that seems odd. What does come across as off is to state your misgivings as fact, without taking the trouble to check them. If the size of something seems odd, the first thing to do is check how big it actually is. Even now, when you've been told exactly how big your "problem" model should be, you're posting a comparison chart instead of just measuring the model, which will definitively tell you what scale it is. *That* is the mistake.

ps – that's a great chart, thanks for posting it.

thank you

Please put us out of our misery here. How long is the Wirbelwind?

i would like to delete this post but tmp does not have a delete button…anyways it is too big.I believe 1/60.

If only there was some way you could check it…. Seriously, what's your aversion to picking up a ruler and going "I knew it" or "my mistake, thanks for clearing it up"…?

The Dragon prepainted models are true 1/72, not even close to 1/60. I've seen enough of them used with 1/72 plastic infantry from various makers in games and they don't look oversized next to the 1/72 infantry. I've also seen Westwind 1/60 vehicles and they're way bigger. Case closed.

BTW other 1/72 scale prepainted lines from Hobby Master's Ground Power series, Forces of Valor and Altaya/IXO are the same size as Dragon's so if Dragon "got it wrong" then they all did. Sorry, but I don't think so.

That Wirbelwind isn't 1/72 – it is 1/48 & made by New Millennium – I own 2 of them and several others in the series – indeed larger than 1/72 because they aren't 1/72 – that being said – Dragon is pretty good about scale and in my experience Dragon models are spot of 1/72

Actually the Wirbelwind in autoblinda's comparison pic looks like a Matchbox 1/72 from a paint scheme standpoint. The 1/48 Classic Armor Diecast one is not pre-painted that well unless he repainted it with an airbrush.

Which makes me believe that it's the other way around, i.e. the Stug and autoblinda in the pic are actually 1/100.

Whichever case it may be it looks like autoblinda's got his scales mixed up and thought they're all 1/72, because there's no way all of the models shown in his pic are from the same scale.

Well, each manufacturer seems to interpret 1/72, 1/76/ or 20mm in their own fashion. The AB41 and Stug seem about right. The Wirbelwind is definitely out of scale. I have bought models from manufacturers that are way out of scale, not wanting to mention any names; sometimes even out of scale with their other models!

I'm no expert on 1/72 since it's not my preferred scale, but the Wirbelwind looks like this model listed as 1/72:

link

It could be 1/76 I suppose, I don't know. But in any case the difference in size between the Wirbelwind on the one hand and the Stug/AB41 on the other from his pic is too pronounced to be in the same scale, or even between 1/72 and 1/76 for that matter.

If the Wirbelwind is 1/72 then the Stug and AB41 look like they're 1/100.

Unless the Matchbox so-called "1/72" Wirbelwind is an old Dinky toy that's not really 1/72 (i.e. much larger).

hI 28mm fanatik

the wirbliewind model you linked to is the same model-it does say 1/72 on the bottom

however when compared to other 20mm vehicles (i have many kits) ex:airfix (1/76) italieri (1/72 ETC) it appears massive.that was my point. (ie:mislabeled?)-so 1/60 seems to be the size…or something in between…

cheers !

The Stug III is a Roco. Note the clip at the front center hull is a give away. The two road wheels at the rear corners, the style of the hatch, and the look of the tracks being just horizontal bars. I have about 45 of them and got my first one 50 years ago. It's HO.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

i believe 1/87 or 1/76 are smaller than 1/72 but not to the same degree.

anyways i will use the whirbelwind and sturmtiger (on the small scale) for my 28mm COC

unfortunately i do not really like late war (43-45) stuff (i got these years ago in Japan on a whim) :/ (i am more of a 1939-1942 player)

28mm Fanatik has it just about right. Whilst the Wirbelwind could be Matchbox it could also be from the C.D.C. Armour range. Images show them to be pretty much identically painted.

C.D.C produced them first and Matchbox subsequently acquired the moulds for most of the range.

Size wise they are 1/72. I have some C.D.C. Pz IVs and (to within a mm or two) they are the same size as the Revell, Hasegawa and Britannia Pz IVs that live in the same box. I dont have a C.D.C. Wirbelwind, but I doubt very much that C.D.C. would produce a Wirbelwind to a different scale than their Pz IV.

Hi, autoblinda,

I'm in agreement with the opinion your StuG is a Rocco (1/87.)

I snapped a pic of a Rocco StuG I've got alongside a PSC PzIV and a Dragon StuG. (I will post the pics tonight – need to figure out how to and am rather short of time right now!) The molded track on the front of the vehicle (two sets of links) is identical to my Rocco.

Check the bottom of your StuG. Mine has, reading from top to bottom, "DBGM" over "STURMGESCHUTZ III" and "MADE IN AUSTRIA" on the bottom.

I'll dig it back out tonight and try to get some measurements for you to compare by, but the size difference in your pic is about the same I've got with the PSC and Rocco. We've been upgrading to 1/72nd scale vehicles the past few years and the 1/87s are in storage…. I can make a deal if anyone's interested! :)

Jay

There's a C.D.C. Wirbelwind for sale on eBay UK right now. Only £110.00 GBP plus p&p.

If I was autoblinda I would sell mine and game with something cheaper!

There's a C.D.C. Wirbelwind for sale on eBay UK right now. Only £110.00 GBP GBP plus p&p.

Crikey, I didn't realise they were using gold instead of base metals in die casting.

BTW guys, it's Roco not Rocco.

I think I got that model for $10 USD back in the day.. I don't know who's paying this kind of money

So I based it and put it next to some 28mm figures..'looks like it is the best fit.too big for 1/72 and just a tad small for 28mm.a little smaller is better than much bigger.

related link

TMP link

here are the models with 1/48 tamiya germans… Scale is a little bit off but it looks much better than if I were to use it in my smaller scale games

Are you sure the figs next to the Wirbelwind are 28mm? Which manufacturer's are they?

The general "consensus" in corresponding vehicle scale to figure height is:

1/100 = 15mm
1/72 = 20mm
1/56 = 28mm

Though there are the heretics among us 28mm gamers who insist on 1/48 vehicles as well as a minority who use 1/60 I believe.

Just use the vehicle scale you think "looks right" and don't sweat it.

autoblinda, next time you are taking pictures of those vehicles, could you also insert a ruler parallel to the vehicle?

first photo was warlord.the bottom photos were tamiya 1/48th german bixed set …yes..the way I see it skirmish can use 1/60-1/56-and 1/48th together..you just have to arrange it well.

larger scale battles need smaller figs 1/76 -1/72 to 1/87

I do not collect 15mm as I do not like the infantry sculpts

cheers :)

We always have this problem in the miniatures world, 15mm, 28mm and all the rest are sizes, 1/72 and 1/48 and all the rest are scales. Scale of course is the more accurate way to model, take a dimension and divide it by the denominator, x/72=y , plug in your x and solve for y. That's the way that it's used in the modelling world, while there are some variations and mistakes it usually lets you have relatively accurate representations. I tend to build 1/35th scale Shermans, I have over 20 of them from Tamiya and Academy and Tasca and Dragon and Italeri. I put them side by side and there is very little difference in dimensions.

Meanwhile the same is not true of my miniature figure. I tend to concentrate on 28mm figures from many manufacturers and they vary quite a bit. This is because there is no standard, each sculptor tends to measure differently, some go for overall height, others for foot to hat, some from base to head etc. Now we see "heroic" 28mm which are closer to 30-32mm in height. Now it's not necessarily a problem, people vary in height, generally speaking at that size slight differences in weapon and equipment size are really all that noticeable. But when you mix models, many of which are molded to a precise scale you can run into problems. I have some 28mm Warlords WW2 American Infantry. Now most folks will say that 28mm comes closest to models at 1/56th scale. But, and perhaps because of the bases, they "look" fine next to my 1/48th scale Sherman tanks. Now before you say that then my Shermans must really be 1/56th scale please note that I have measured them and they are indeed 1/48th scale.

It would be nice if the miniature gaming world ran on scale rather than size. You would certainly be less likely to wonder if these figures mixed with those. (Again, you do have variations in the modelling world, for example Tamiya's 1/35th scale figures are famous for running small.) But I never have to worry if my line up of 1/72nd scale P51s will match. But since they run on size rather than scale we just learn to deal with it.

If your Wirbelwind seems to go with your 28mm figures I would say "fine, don't worry about the "scale/size" issue. But if you get actual Dragon 1/72nd vehicles you can be pretty sure that they are indeed 1/72nd.

Have fun (because that's what it's all about).