" the "Mythical" 1/72 scale : 20mm? 25mm? HO? 15mm? " Topic

As a diorama maker in 1/72 scale for many years, I'm amazed at how many interpretations their are of 1/72 in the gaming
community. I've heard many who are legitimately wise in the
ways of science and math consider 15mm, 20mm, (HO),25mm to be 1/72 scale. (Its taken me years to get used to "Size" groupings as opposed to "scale"). In my experience, true 1/76 figures and vehicles are for the most part obviously smaller and out of scale with true 1/72's, "HO"/20mm or 1/87 figures are completely out of scale with 1/72's, (If they are true, accurate, and IF thats the thing you want). I think about this issue everytime I see posts about the "Zombies!!!" described as 20mm and/or 1/72 scale. They are bent over a bit and still from head to sole of foot are 27mm and look lousy near any true 1/72 figs.

Technically, 1/72 is supposed to represent a true 25mm figure.

This has of late become 1/60 (or something like that) as 25mm changed definitions.

1/87 or 1/88 is supposed to be 20mm, and 1/100 is supposed to be 15mm (1/144 is N gauge, or 12mm)

Now, as to what the industry today calls these sizes… That is dependent upon whom you talk to.

"I've heard many who are legitimately wise in the
ways of science and math consider 15mm, 20mm, (HO),25mm to be 1/72 scale."

15mm is nowhere near 1/72, its more like 1/100. Having said that, though some manufacturers have a very liberal interpretation of scale. For example, the Usborne series of card models claim to be "OO/HO" but in fact work very well with 15mm figures.

IMHO, 20mm is equivalent to 1/72 or 1/76. I am prepared to ignore the difference in scale between 1/72 and 1/76, although I consider true HO (1/87) to be too small for use with 20mm figures.

25mm figures are not OO, HO or anything else, particularly since most of them are actually 28-30mm anyway.

As for your comment about Zombies – isn't it a well known fact that Zombies are always at least 7ft tall?

I've got a book from the 70's with all the scales set out, I am pretty sure 1:72 = 20mm. I'll look it up later.

Do the math: 1/72 is derived from RAF models (at least that's what I heard). Six feet in reality (72 inches) is equal to one inch on the model; which would make a 180cm tall man into a 25mm model. But then we have the scale creep factor, and the fact that metal miniatures have really screwed up proportions.

1/76 to 1/72 is generally accepted as 20mm scale as long as the miniatures are somewhere in between 20 and 25 mm tall
:-)

If this conversation wasn't dealing with pushing toy soldiers around a table, I probably could get behind the whole 1/72/20mm/Zombies argument. As it stands, it is about pushing toy soldiers around a table, so I don't see the sense in getting worked up about it. They are close enough that unless I have a critical eye, I can deal with the differences.

I've hought the true 20mm figure companies like Stan and Reveresco (Starguard) work great with 1/72 scale. I spent lots of time kitbashing to make my Sci-Fi vehicles and used 1/72 or 1/76 scale vehicles.

I always thought that true HO (1/87) was the best for miniatures gaming, particularly the modern periods, as the detail was there but the models weren't too large. It's just a shame that the variety wasn't there. Minitanks never took infantry seriously, and their lines had some amazing gaps (a nearly complete NATO line, with the T-54 as the only Soviet tank, for example).

When I was younger we used minitanks with Airfix figures. Even as a kid the scale differences bothered me, and when you saw the Minitank Tiger I dwarfed by the mighty Matchbox Stuart …

@LE: Don't forget the silliness factor, whereby mm 'scales' have been redefined to measure heights from feet-to-eyes or some such, transforming 1/72nd from 23-25mm feet-to-head to 20mm feet-to-eyes …

Smokey, just forget the sizes. They are nonsense used by figure manufacturers who haven't got a clue about human anatomy and use the size thing to cover up the awfulness of their work.

In my games, I freely mix 1:76 and 1:72 for the most part, but make sure figures on a stand look right together. I do sometimes mix HO and 1:72 when I don't have any other vehicles, but these are wargames and not strictly dioramas: ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal

Timbo: "Smokey, just forget the sizes. They are nonsense used by figure manufacturers who haven't got a clue about human anatomy and use the size thing to cover up the awfulness of their work."

Feeling a bit cranky today? :-)

I wanted to chip in my 4 cents (inflation, ya know) and mention that in skirmish gaming (1:1 figure basing), scale creep doesn't really seem to matter as much.

Allow an oldtimer to chip in his two Yuan's worth (Chinese currency – you do the math):

1/72 scale IS true 25mm scale. The math is the math. Only manufacturer I know that's been a stickler about the math of wargaming miniatures is John McEwan of REVIRESCO. He still sculpts his fugures to 1/72 scale, measuring from the bottom of the feet to the top of the head IGNORING FOOTWEAR AND HEADGEAR, just like any good forensic scientist, paleontologist, or other related professionals would do (and nevermind the IPMS crowd of scale purits!).

Aeons ago John tried to get the figure manufacturers to standardize their scales the way model railroaders had done. No takers. So we have the chaos that we have today, with the Barrett Scale trying to make sense of a tangled mess that would make the saints themselves lose patience.

IMHO 1/72 scale figures will mix relatively well with most "20mm scale" figures. 1/76 scale models are too dinky for me (remember, I'm Old School), but when nothing else is available, I make do until something better comes along….

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

I hear you. Its just my background in 1/72 plastics dioramas, where 1 or two scale points makes all the difference in the World (Like going from Arkansas into Oklahoma, those one or two percentage points of IQ points the Sooners lack is noticeable :). I'm also frustrated 'cause my new Star Trek TOS figures are incompatable with almost every range of 25mms, and are too chunky for 1/72 scale. So I've got beautiful figures, that will probably never kill Klingons, or any other aliens
:( Khaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!!

When you saw Saving Private Ryan, didn't that Ed Woodian "Tiger" bother you?? I was expecting Oddball to pop out of the turret any time. I guess Spielberg has the opinion that we are stupid. Not even trying to hide the scale, and then sticking it to us by not even bothering to mask the T-34 road wheels??? If that didn't bopther you in the movie, 1/76 vehicles and 1/72 figures will work.

Hi

Again, a point of history about the scales. Leland is right that McE wanted to get everyone to standardize in the early 70s. As I was getting into SF fig games because of John and Scotty pushing StarGard on me, it seemed sensible as I was a regular/successful modeler in IPMS competitions.

But decades ago, I realized that my scale modeler instincts have nothing to do with game scales.

But I digressed.

The history. At the time when there were true 25s, not just McEwens, it was treated when doing vehicles as 1/72. In actual fact, John used to also cast up aircrew with better detail than the crew in the kits.

And wargamers doing tank games using 1/76 airfix tank kits started referring to them as 20mm. So, from the history thing standpoint, the 20mm derived from plastic model practice of 1/76.

Tens of thousands of figures ago, I was obsessed with it, but the figures manufacturers have beaten me into submission. Now? Close enough is close enough if it looks like the fig would be fun to paint.

Rocky

Yeah, I remember the old IPMS days when I worried about the
"scale" of my wiring inside T-34's that could not be seen without snaking a fiber optic tube through the hatch. And the exact scale .45 Martini shells I made one at a time at the factory to scatter around my Isandhlwana dioramas, only to end up telling people "Look closer, don't you see the shells?"

I have mellowed, all the buildings for my zombie and Chaos in Carpathia are built to match the varied figures, "look" right and permit detailed interior play. I will stay with plastic 1/72 for colonial, but this Star Trek stuff is a problem. Until Mega Minis gets those alien sets released, I've got few options. BTW, what size/scale are Matakishis' project?

The best discussion of 20mm figs is here
intonet.co.uk/~rblack

I've always thought that 1:100 is 15mm, 1:72 is 20mm, 1:60 is 25mm and most modern '25mm' figures are closer to 1:48. I recently bought a pack of 1:72 germans which are closer to 30mm (to top of helmet, 25mm to eye level)! Think it all comes down to personal taste though, I would of prefered the germans to be 20mm but still going to use them.

TMP link

<<Tens of thousands of figures ago, I was obsessed with it, but the figures manufacturers have beaten me into submission. Now? Close enough is close enough if it looks like the fig would be fun to paint.>>

Heretic.

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Variations in scale inhibit me from purchases.

I just bought some plastic 1/72nd WW2 British and Germans (24mm in height). I've enjoyed painting plastics recently and wanted to have some of my own. They haven't even arrived but I'm already looking at adding vehicles to this force.

But there is the problem of matching vehicles to the figures and then making sure I choose a vehicle range which is OK for future purchases and not a scale cul-de-sac. I now check everything out on plasticsoldierreview.com for compatiblity. This really kills impulse purchases!