"Swedish Karabinier Regiment" Topic

Would anyone one ken whether the Skanska Karabinier reg't. were light cavalry or heavy? From looking at the uniform I would go with heavy cavalry rather than light. Others state that since they are called karabinier they are light cavalry, being "carbine carriers".

The uniform definitely makes them look like heavy cavalry (and considering they were still wearing it in 1813, pretty old-fashioned heavy cavalry at that). However, their full name is Skånska karabinjärregementet, which certainly suggests that they were considered to be light troops. Also, when they were part of Wallmolden's corps, they were brigaded along with a squadron of hussars as part of the 5th Swedish brigade, which again suggests they were considered to be light cavalry. I would assume that had they been heavy cavalry they would have been been kept as a reserve.

There are a couple of other TMP discussions here: TMP link TMP link

The Swedish info I have, as does on line info, indicates they were heavy cavalry.

hat.com/Othr7/Berg02P.html

Note that "schwere cavallerie" translates as "heavy cavalry".

I don't know why anyone would have the idea that a cavalry regiment being called "karabinier" (or "carabinier") necessarily implies that it's a light cavalry regiment given that the two French carabinier, heavy cavalry regiments should be well known to Napoleonic wargamers.

link

As well it was not unusual for heavy cavalry to be issued carbines.

I think shadoe01 has got it right and all my assumptions were wrong. So. it's probably best to ignore my previous post (though you might find something useful in the links).

I'm not sure too much should be read into the organizational structure of the Swedish troops. The various Nafziger orders of battle for 1813-14 show, for example, the Guard Cuirassiers in the same brigade as the two hussar regiments. Some OOB show some or all of the cavalry in a cavalry division and some show the cavalry in brigades assigned to the infantry divisions.

Not to worry, SJDonovan, it just so happens I've been building up a Swedish force and had done a bit of research. It's a bit confusing because the Swedes kept converting heavy cavalry into light cavalry as well as cavalry into infantry in order to save money.

I have found that "heavy" cavalry use a straight sword and "light" cavalry use a curved sword. This seems to be the case regardless of the name. Thus French dragoons are heavies while Prussian dragoons are lights.

The famous French Carabiniers with their brass armour are heavies and rode along side their curiassier counterparts, so do not get hung up on names. Usually they are a historical throwback.

I always thought of the Swedish Karabiniers as heavies, because of their dress. From from little I know Carabiniers were another form of dragoon, not light dragoons, and then Boney poshed 'em up into flashy cuirassiers. Thanks all.

Hi,

Not sure that Auld Minis ter is right when he says as Prussian Dragoons are really lights:

"I have found that "heavy" cavalry use a straight sword and "light" cavalry use a curved sword. This seems to be the case regardless of the name. Thus French dragoons are heavies while Prussian dragoons are lights."

It is puzzling though as some Dragoons are heavier than others! Think this need airing/discussing in a new thread unless, of course, it's been covered before.

Cheers,

Paul

In Sörensens (Swedish) book "Sista striden" ( The Last Battle) about the battle of Bornhöft 1813 where the Karabinjär regiment participated they are referred to as Heavy Cavalry mounted on big horses with heavy swords

In the picture above the Carabiners are the ones with the yellow facing colors (on the left). I have this unit in 15mm and from the research I did the best figure to use was the 1806 Prussian Dragoon. The regiment had 8 squadrons broken into 2 battalions, of which 1 was deployed in 1813.
They should be considered as either mediums or heavies- or whatever your rules consider the French Dragoons. The trumpeters wore reversed colors, as did the troops when in fatigue dress. There is a site from the Swedish archives that has a couple of paintings of the regiment in 1813 en marche, though I don't have my links available at the present.

"I have found that "heavy" cavalry use a straight sword and "light" cavalry use a curved sword. This seems to be the case regardless of the name. Thus French dragoons are heavies while Prussian dragoons are lights."

Not a bad rule, still in 1806 the Prussian Dragoons had a straight sword – and only 2 regiments were regarded as heavy cavalry while the rest was regarded as light cavalry, due to their mounts.

So, according to Maj Bloodnok, since my karelian Dragoons have more or less the same uniform they'd be considered heavies?

It is just a clue, it certainly not foolproof. Of course one might think Swedish dragoons look like light dragoons, especially when the Smalands latta dragonregemente has a uniform that is much the same as the Vestgota liniedragonregemente, apart from the crested helmet worn by Vestgota. Again with the Swedes who knows? After all the Skanska (at least I think it was Skanksa),Husarregemente are heavy cavalry despite their title, and uniform.

According to the sources below, the Skanska Hussars were the North Skanska Line Cavalry until 1801, the Skanska Line Dragoons until 1807, and the Skansak Hussars after that.

Hat article by Björn Bergérus:

hat.com/Othr7/Berg02P.html

Photos of old Courier and Tradition articles:

link

Swedish wiki article on the Skanska Hussars:

link

I hope that helps.

The Västgöta Dragoons seem to have been light dragoons but were converted to infantry in 1811.

shadoe01 – according to the Swedish Armeemuseum's "Between the Imperial Eagles: Sweden's Armed Forces during the Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars 1780-1820":

Västgöta kavalleriregemente (Västgöta Cavalry Regiment)
1792 converted into Västgöta dragonregemente (Västgöta Dragoon Regiment)
1802 renamed Västgöta linjedragonregemente (Västgöta Line Dragoon Regiment)
1806 renamed Västgöta dragonregemente (Västgöta Dragoon Regiment)
1811 dismounted and transformed into infantry as the Västgöta regemente (Västgöta regiment).