"The Editor should not fan flames" Topic

As things will have it, the Ultramodern board once more degenerated to the den of inequity it has the tendency to become. What really saddened me is that this time the Editor started the frackas. It is bad enough Tango01 cannot resist it, but the Editor?

Look I get that some people get a kick out of being mean to each other and expending energy in fruitless internet banter. I do that as well on my Facebook account. And I get it that there is a reason to have this board. I do not agree with it, I am very unhappy with how it is utilized, but I understand how it could be useful.

But it is not. And now the Editor himself takes part in the fire. Bad show I fear. Bad show.

There is tons of stuff that TMP needs to help people enjoy the hobby. From threads collecting painted examples of miniatures, to threads showing off collections, to gaming reviews of rules. I am not saying I am doing my part, because I am not, not nearly enough. But maybe all that energy expended on current politics on a site on Toy Soldiers is better off expended on gaming and miniature projects.

Anyway we are all free to be foolish in our own way. I just wish on this foolishness they stuck to the fetid comments sections of National Review, The Nation, Commentary, God forbid Frontpage Magazine, Mother Jones etc.

You can do like I, and turn the damn thing off.

But really, if people limited themselves to discussing purely military operations, without cheerleading and without sarcastic judgement upon the moral aspects of gaming modern conflicts, then all would be well. But people will be people.

It took a while but I learned not to care what is posted here. I now save all my ire for the idiots on the TV.

By the way, the Editor did post a lost of good stuff in the historical gaming sections.

Oh I ignore it, I do, and not even by pressing things. But things like that had driven off from TMP friends, good people and good people n the gaming, and it is damn pity for them to be driven off just because a bunch of fiesty fellows cannot go and fight each other in the proper fetid arenas of the net.

That is why I stopped paying for the aggravation.

I still says let them have a wild west board where they duke it out and there is no law.

I've turned it off, and used the stifle and ignore features on people who've consistently exasperated me. I didn't do this in the past, but, you know, life's too short to read the words of dolts, fools and jerks.

I assume some people feel the same way about me, and that's absolutely fine :)

But, yeah, the original point stands. It's like throwing bodies into the shark tank and then punishing shark-like behaviour.

I think a lot of folks will take Balin's position in the long run.

I turned it off too.

I turned it off yesterday, I come here to read about my hobby not get into verbal fisticuffs with people looking for trouble.

At the very least, some of his threads amount to entrapment.
He setrs up a "discussion" where ANY reply is automatically political, and then he punishes those whose politics he doesn't like.
Occasionally a right winger like me gets a post deleted, but I would say that 90% of the denizens of the DH are lefties.
Well, not really lefties, but those who disagree with righties.

Seriously, Ultramodern seems to this right wing loon to be nothing but a speed trap for catching left wing cranks.
Either enforce the "no politics" rule evenly or have none at all.
Or delete it entirely.

I have it turned off and have also let my membership lapse.

Agree with Mr. Ghost. Don't follow the board and no longer pay so someone can play power games.

As above, I have turned it off and won't bother extending my membership next year.

I don't pay good money to read political clap trap, I can do that for free in lots of other places.

Why not go the whole hog and just rename it 'Current Affairs'?

I ignore it without having to press any buttons too. It's existence simply does not detract from my TMP experience. I don't understand how a board you don't look at/read (or 'ignore') could affect the decision to remain a supporting member-?

I will be renewing my membership.

I have it turned off and have also let my membership lapse.

As did I.

I like the other aspects of TMP far too much to let
my membership lapse. I'll be renewing next year, as
scheduled.

As for the Ultramodern board – turn off/ignore/whatever
works.

For the most part, the Bard's words apply (suitably
modified) – "tales told by [deleted to avoid the
'name calling DH offense']"

I'm with Gray Ghost.

Joes Shop. It led to a good friend, leaving TMP. So yes it does detract from my experience.

As for support. I have always been a spineless mercenary, I give money to TMP when I try to make money from it (Marketplace). In all other matters I hope my meager contributions are fair exchange, though I do understand what a miserly position this is.

I also agree with John the OFM. I'm one of those who has been caught in the speed trap from time to time.

Much as it pains me to say this, and for the first and possibly only time, I agree with the OFM. in addition I have learned not to expect fair and even moderation from the Editor and so I no longer give him any of my money either.

I don't think it is Left /Right so much as courtesy, or lack thereof. I occasionally get posts deleted as political, but haven't been doghoused, I think because I try to be respectful and polite. As do many others, on both sides. And some go nuts and sling mud, also on both sides, and get dh'ed.

As to which side (if either) tends to be less temperate, readers can decide for themselves.

The OFM is 100% correct. I expect a degree of unconscious bias, given the nature of the hobby and the demographic realities, but the inequities as noted are too blatant to ignore.

I also have the boards in question turned off, and I am a past master at ignoring posters and topics I know will get my blood up. However, pretending that they only create issues for those who "allow" themselves to be bothered is nonsense. The effects, as noted by others, leach into the rest of TMP.

Thank you John the OFM! You said it far better then I could have. What you said is the truth and if it hurts then too bad. This foolishness needs to stop. Now we are getting imperial decrees on who can post? First the purges,(good deceant people banned) then terrible posts design to cause trouble and get people banned.put up by the editor bill himself! Then certain individual express shock when called out for quoting and drawing attention to a racist white supremacy book? Rome is burning folks no matter how you hide your heads.

BTW John the OFM if you are up in my area and do not mind gaming with a lefty your invited to a rev war game and I will supply your favorite beer!

Martin Rapier Supporting Member of TMP 12 Oct 2014 8:45 a.m. PST
………..
Why not go the whole hog and just rename it 'Current Affairs'?

*NJH: Many years back, the TMP village mob (led by the usual TMP village idiots) showed up with torches and pitchforks to kill the CA Board. I posted here on TMP that the problem wasn't the CA Board. I mused that it was the nature of the denizens of TMP. The TMP village mob clamored for the demise of the CA Board because it would end all the arguments and controversies that led to so many being Dawghoused. Well folks, the CA Board has been gone for a good many years – yet the puling, mewling, and the threnodies continue. It was never the CA Board. Pogo was right all along!

sigh. B6gobos, can't resist picking a fight?

"yet the puling, mewling, and the threnodies continue"

That's beautifully put. I admire a nice piece of writing.

Picking a fight? Reread some of your own posts.

Will you take my word for it that I think white supremacy is a repugnant and foolish idea? Because I have said that several times.

I don't understand how a board you don't look at/read (or 'ignore') could affect the decision to remain a supporting member-?

because sooner or later the arguments spill over into other boards

I got my membership refunded because this ..stuff… spilled over into obituaries, the lounge, etc. Dawghousing is just the cost of doing business for some.

What really saddened me is that this time the Editor started the frackas. It is bad enough Tango01 cannot resist it, but the Editor?

It was simply a link to a statement from the U.S. military, about the possibility of a crisis if Ebola reaches Central America. Military topics are germane at TMP. TMP link

There is tons of stuff that TMP needs to help people enjoy the hobby.

Then focus on those areas, and unsub from Ultramodern. Seems like an easy cure.

He setrs up a "discussion" where ANY reply is automatically political…

Most people seem to be able to make comment without breaking forum rules. The others will soon learn.

Why not go the whole hog and just rename it 'Current Affairs'?

Because political discussions are NOT allowed on Ultramodern, and because the old Current Affairs board was open to discussions with no relevance to military situations. The Blue Fez handles that niche just fine.

Now we are getting imperial decrees on who can post?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Then certain individual express shock when called out for quoting and drawing attention to a racist white supremacy book?

Only if they are banned members who are trolling, which has been the case.

"Joes Shop. It led to a good friend, leaving TMP. So yes it does detract from my experience."

0k, understood: that's valid and personal; as nothing like that has happened to me I hope you can still understand my own position.

"because sooner or later the arguments spill over into other boards…"

Possibly, but when I read a thread that has value to me I can easily ignore someones comments that are either nonsensical or simply stupid. For me it's a matter of context: it's simply an internet site that for the most part I enjoy; while I enjoy it I will support it.

A very wise man once told me this:

"If someone tells you something about yourself that you don't want to hear, you can ignore him.

If two people say that same thing independently, you might want to think about it.

If three people say the same thing, it's almost certainly true."

Dozens of people have been saying the same thing about our Esteemed Editor over a period of years.

Define "independent".

I don't see the 'Ultramodern' board as a political one at all, even though some people (like the TMP member named after a 17th century English philosopher from Malmsbury who wrote 'Leviathan') can't help using it to spout their viewpoints, at least by suggestion.

My comments in 'Ultramodern' are, for the most part, expressed in such a way as not to take sides.

Mostly I don't bother commenting on this sort of stuff but "Whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad" is the quote that comes to mind.

moderator
[mod-uh-rey-ter]

noun
1.
a person or thing that moderates.

- Hmm, maybe TMP could get one….

I find going onto the Ultra Modern board a bit like it must have been for those who would go and visit Bedlam – lots of loonies ranting and frothing at the mouth, with the normal people ignoring them and the other residents either cheering them on or having their own outburst :-)

moderator- Hmm, maybe TMP could get one….

We're current on all forum complaints, AND Editor Julia has returned.

Trolling only works if someone RESPONDS!

I know the feeling.

I don't mind the Ultra Modern board. I check in from time to time but rearely post and each day feel less and less incloined to do so. Of course I can't resist a bit of juicy schadenfreude now and then. It has seemed to do one good thing. It has attracted all the people who received the rating in grade school of "does not play well with other children" and keeps them off the rest of boards which now talk mostly about about war games.

It's a bit like every wargames club that I've ever belonged to over the last 30 years – there's always a couple of club members whose behaviour, loudly expressed opinions and/or bodily hygiene is obnoxious.

When their behaviour, opinions or bad smell start to spoil your enjoyment of your gaming, you really have only a few options, especially if their expressed opinions are repugnant to you:

1. Blank them and pretend they don't exist ( the stifle option)
2. The membership unite, agree their behaviour is antisocial and unacceptable and get 'the committee' to kick them out if they don't moderate their behaviour (not so easy with a committee of 1 who has a relaxed attitude towards such behaviour and sometimes makes provocative comments that only exacerbate the issue)
3. Leave and join another club in the hope that there will be more like-minded souls there (the LAF/Wargames Website option).

It would be a great shame if the real value of TMP was overshadowed by bad publicity caused by a few individuals who think that 'freedom of speech' excuses all generally unacceptable behaviour. In the internet age our minority hobby is becoming much more visible – the recent furore over misogyny in the gaming industry could very easily spill over into lurid tales of anti-semitism, racism and sexism exhibited in the forums here – even the appearance of WW2 re enactors in SS uniform at Salute in London reached the national press (yep, the Daily Mail again, so it must be true) and I still remember CND protesters outside wargames conventions in the 80s.

So, does the 'club' want to just continue pretending that the noxious, opinionated racist in the corner isn't really one of us or not? We're all judged by the friends we keep, after all.

Since when was this 'club' a democracy? We all accept, sort of, that it's Bill's House, Bill's Rules, so why is a poll needed to decide if holocaust deniers should be club members? Would you happily play a game with such a person or admit to being a club member with one?

so why is a poll needed to decide if holocaust deniers should be club members?

So Chortle should be expelled?

That's for you, as the owner of the business, to decide what, if any, sanction is appropriate for the extremist nonsense Chortle has been posting recently.

Only you can decide what the likely fall-out of allowing such posts to be posted, and then resolutely defending the decision to allow them.

Were I in your position, I'd have cut his anti-Semitic posts as being political, inflammatory and of no gaming relevance whatsoever. Stuff like this belongs in the Blue Fez if it has any place on this forum.

Were I in your position, I'd have cut his anti-Semitic posts as being political, inflammatory and of no gaming relevance whatsoever. Stuff like this belongs in the Blue Fez if it has any place on this forum.

I lean towards "love your enemies" and show them the error of their ways. I have always had confidence that in an open debate with people of good will, truth will prevail.

As a businessman, however, I am subject to the pressures of the marketplace, which is why I am listening to the members of TMP, and willing to have a vote.

Voting is now open: TMP link