"Sealing before washing?" Topic

I posted some pics of a few mini's I'd done recently in another miniatures group on Facebook:

One of the suggestions I got was related to the shadowing. These are pretty detailed 15mm figs, so I figured a diluted ink wash might be the way to go. My order goes:

0 – Prepaint prep (bases, flash, etc)
1 – Prime (typically a dark grey)
2 – Paint figure by layers (I do "large stuff" first, typically)
3 – Touch up
4 – Wash with diluted ink (sepia or smokey is a go-to)
5 – Drybrush (these were drybrushed in khaki)

The coms using guy I did years back, but the others are recent additions. None of them are sealed yet. What it sounds like I'm getting suggested is to do this:

0 – Prepaint prep (bases, flash, etc)
1 – Prime (typically a dark grey)
2 – Paint figure by layers
3 – Touch up
4 – Seal (Dulcote by Testor, I presume)
5 – Wash with diluted ink
6 – Drybrush
7 – Seal again (I presume?)

Does this make for a better order? I'm always looking to enhance my skills, though I think I'm just about done with this faction (there's always another!).

The reason he suggests this is so that the ink wash doesn't stain the main painting of the miniature. The older one (coms guy) was done using a Reaper Ash Grey pot paint that is evidently no longer in production, while the other three were done using what the site leads me to believe it's successor is. That could explain why they look darker, at least.

When I get home this evening I'll have to take a closer look, but I don't think they stood out all that different from each other. It could be I wasn't as heavy with the drybrush stage on the newer ones, or that I didn't dilute the ink enough, or that the new grey really is that different.

Thanks,

M.

The need to seal before washing is ususally dependent upon the paint you are washing over. I'd guess that only 10-20% of paints significantly darkend when they are ink washed. In these cases sealing before the wash can help. For alot of paints though it doesn;t matter.

For me I know I have about 4-5 specific paints that need to have the sealer done before the wash to get the affect I am looking for.For instance my howard hues white just goes brown and muddy when I wash over it with ink without sealer, but the GW white does not.

Another problem with washing before sealing is that some paints, especially craft acrylics, have a "tooth" to them which doesn't allow the wash to get into the cracks and crevices but holds it all over the surface thus making it muddy looking. Sealing places a smooth coating on the figure allowing the wash to go where it is supposed to go.

Jim

Originally, the sealing coat was to protect the paintwork you are washing over. Alcohol based washes will lift acrylic and solvent based will lift enamel.

When Acrylics became mainstream it became the fashion to seal with 'future' or some other high gloss coat for the very purpose you have stated. It helps the wash sit in the crevices and not stain the remaining colour.

On a side note, I prefer to do any dry-brushing before the wash as the wash helps blend the effect but it's a personal thing.

Yup I've come to this method of late too and find it working better than if I washed straight onto my acrylic pain first, I use a basic craft 'gloss' spray and using a mix of white spirit,tube oils and matt vanish (I make my own dips this way) I paint this over the basic paint and gloss base, when dry -+ 12 hours for the gloss about 1 to 2 hours for the dip I then go over this 'pinwash/recess detailing I do 2 or so highlights of base colour where needed. I can repeat the dip (which I paint on where needed to either increase the darkness of the recesses or as a stain -eg as a beard shadow if needed) this works well for me of course I vanish 'dulcoat' finally to flatten it all only thing I don't do it to is the metals which go on last and get a glossy wash and highlights. I am experimenting with white highlights for silver and a bright yellow ochre for golds.
Hope this helps Cheers

Ah, so I should seal, drybrush THEN wash for better look?

I have no idea why those pictures aren't showing; they worked for me earlier. I posted them (and more) up here earlier: TMP link

M.

Yup second method for me.

I do something along the lines of the second method
1. clean flash/prep bases
2. prime
3. paint from inside out – flesh first (including highlight shades), then clothes, weapons, small details
4. drybrush larger areas (clothes)
5. gloss or dull coat(I think gloss allows wash to flow better
6. oil or Future wash (If I do Future, I don't do step 5)
7. minor highlight/drybrush
8 several coats of dull coat

Seems like a huge effort, but it's really not

Hm, forgot to follow up on this thread!

I decided to finish up my Khurasan armored guys in the same style as before, but I'll investigate the method above when finishing up on my Rebel Sahadeen. I'd only done a small number of them before they got boxed off, so if I like the approach it shouldn't clash too much. Further, if I like how it all works, I'll use this method for future armies.

Cooler weather is here and I'm not sure how well spray on sealant handles that. Should I invest in the brush on type? I may even have some Vallejo ones from back before my hiatus.

M.