"Hundreds of Taliban fighters battle Afghan forces near Kabul" Topic

"As many as 700 heavily armed Taliban insurgents are battling Afghan security forces in Logar, a key province near the capital Kabul, local officials said on Tuesday, in a test of the Afghan military's strength as foreign forces pull out of the country.

Militants have this summer mounted increasingly intensive assaults across several provinces, often involving hundreds of fighters, as the country braces to stand on it own feet militarily for the first time in nearly 13 years.

"There are some 700 of them and they are fighting Afghan forces for territorial control and they have also brought with them makeshift mobile (health) clinics," Niaz Mohammad Amiri, the provincial governor of Logar province, told Reuters by telephone…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Well that is no real surprise. It's the Summer Campaigning season. And they don't want their brother islamic fanatics in ISIS get all the press. Maybe do some beheading videos, like was done before ? As ISIS just did to remind everybody what fantical islam is all about. Plus with all the violations of OPSEC done by the politicos/media, etc., the Talis/AQ know US/NATO is going home soon … so they can still get some Infidal blood on their hands while they can. Not to mention, to be in position to retake all the areas that the ANA/ANP/US/NATO control. Maybe even Kabul ? And then there can be a reenactment of what happened after the USSR left. They can go back to the old habits of ethnic, tribal, warlord affiation, religious, etc. slaughter, cleansing, etc. … AQ maybe can up it's signature there like before !? Plus keeping all their females enslaved, treated like chattle, etc. like in the 15th Century … So what's not to like about these guys !?

Agree my friend.

Amicalement
Armand

Sadly, this was inevitable.

The Taliban are the only strong and organised group in Afghanistan and, as NATO forces pull out, they will emerge to start their real campaign to recover power.

The ANA are good soldiers and many of them will put up a good fight; however, their commanders are useless and the political leaders are a corrupt bunch of crooks.

If NATO provides a lot of support to the ANA, probably through massive air support, then the situation might stabilise into a long counterinsurgency campaign. Otherwise, the Taliban will be back in power before too long.

We fought and bled for nothing.

Jurgen

Hopefully ISIS won't see Aghanistan as a new place to plant it's black flag … I don't know how many of the locals would side with ISIS or fight it ? But based on the Talis and other factions in the 'stan, some may fight … And yes, it appears Jurgen, many have fought and bled for nothing in both Afghanistan and Iraq. The Taliban may revel in the US being busy with ISIS in Iraq … And may/will make their reclaiming the country that much easier. Once US/NATO leaves … As ISIS will still be active when that happens … but hopefully somewhat attrited …

Legion 4,

Afghanistan is well out of the reach of IS. I do not think that US/NATO involvement with IS will have much effect at all on the Taliban. Given that NATO is pulling out of Afghanistan without an ongoing security agreement, it seems that using resources elsewhere will not have any impact at all on what happens there.

I suspect that once IS start taking heavy casualties and bogging down against the re-equipped Kurds, they will soon start to wither and fade into a nuisance.

The one group that I think the West should take huge action against are those Muslims from Western countries who are fighting with IS and their like.

Jurgen

Totally agree Flecktarn, here in the UK, 250 of the sadistic butchers have come back and are walking the streets. The UK contingent of ISIS were known for their savagery and cruelty and lord knows what they are planning here to further their demented cause.

Milites,

Have they been identified or are they "under the radar"?

Jurgen

From this article in the Guardian, some but not all and more effective controls have been shelved as they break the jihadists human rights!

link

Milites,

I was aware of the removal of control orders. What I get from that article is a sense of the difficulty of identifying those who have fought or are fighting as jihadists and the problem of how a democracy deals with them when they are identified.

Jurgen

This is an interesting article.

link

That is why I said hopefully Flecktarn … And I hope ANA and ANP can hold off the Talis, etc. … And of course we both know never underestimate your enemy. But you have been on the ground there. So you know better than I …

Milites,

Very interesting; based on the figures, it seems that Britain may be the main source of EU "recruits" for IS.

It is understandable that the British government finds itself in a dilemma over how to deal with such people; legislation banning UK citizens from fighting for a cause overseas might have implications that were not planned, but just allowing such people back into the country also poses risks to security and safety.

Ultimately, any decision on how to deal with them will have some basis in public and governmental perceptions of IS and similar organisations rather than being totally objective.

My own view is one that might surprise those who usually tend to agree with me and those who tend to disagree with me. Those who go to fight for IS or similar organisations that hate everything that Western civilisation stands for have no place in our society and should have their citizenship and any right of residence in any European nation withdrawn, as well as being denied access to any assets in European countries.

Jurgen

Westerers that join the ISIS jihad … If at all possible if they show up back home. They should be considered traitors and enemy combatants … And that is why there are places like Gitmo …

Wouldn't someone with ties to a known terror group already be prosecuted under existing terror laws?

I know at least in the US, providing money to terror organizations is illegal

Weasel,

I believe that they could be in most European countries.

Legion 4,

The problem with that argument is that what they have done does not fit the definition of treason in most legal systems, and they are not fighting against the West so they are not enemy combatants.

As for "Gitmo", I hope that one day it will be recognised as the abomination that it is.

Jurgen

Very interesting my friend Milites.
Thanks for share.

Amicalement
Armand

I don't know, ISIS has made it clear the West/US is it's enemy … and the Westerners are fighting along side ISIS … so I'm not sure of the specific legal aspects. However, based on what all we know about these Western ISIS jihadists they very well may be considered the enemy. Or wait until one of the returnees blows up a bus full of nuns in the name of Allah … but by then it will be too late. Gitmo, it is a good place to put terrorist picked up on the battlefield … it's just 21st Century version of a POW Camp. And it is noted that 1/3 or more of those released return to the battlefield. The modern version of Terrorist is a bit of a new paradigm. What do you do with fanatics who want kill you in a war without end. Not to mention, Gitmo interrogations have yield some worthwhile intel … but we just may have to agree to disagree on this one …

Afghanistan is well out of the reach of IS.

Maybe not … if this propaganda is to be believed – TMP link

I think the figure being bandied about by the press is that double the number of UK Muslims fight for ISIS than the British Armed forces. Although the media will focus on 13 year old Belgiums fighting for ISIS, the truth is that, certainly in the UK, many have abandoned professional careers, often with college or university qualifications, to join up and fight in Syria and Iraq.

Serious questions need to be asked about lack of assimilation of the younger generation and how to tackle their self-imposed alienation to their mother country. I agree with Flecktarn's solution, but the jihadists travel using a circuitous route and proving they have fought for ISIS requires a level of surveillance we do not seem to have, especially after serious public leaks about likely methods used to gain that intel.

I do think though, that the responsibilities of citizens, to their mother country, needs to be restated in light of the jihadi tourist phenomena. I also think any institution dealing with the teaching of children, be it academic, spiritual or cultural, needs to be strictly monitored and regulated.

This is a good article, in todays Daily Telegraph, explaining the problem we have in the UK, which is largely self-created.

link

CNN stated US Gov't officials said god intel believes ISIS are planning to attack targets in the US. And may be working with Mexican Drug Cartels. With the very thinly protected US Southern borders. It wouldn't be too hard to get ISIS types across the border and blow up a mall, poison water, etc., etc. … So I'm pretty sure all those actions are regarded as acts of war. Even if the US gov't wants to try to take legal actions against ISIS types. Like trying to arrest terrorists, it's a corrupted paradigm. These guys no matter where they come from or passports they hold … Are enemy combatants, IMO … Again, another former CIA who was incharge of the "UBL desk", clearly stated these "bad guys" need to be heavily attrited … they pose a worldwide threat … Or we just wait until we have another 9/11 and the gov't has hearing trying to find out how it happened. When many intel and military types know how it did … and at least what to do to attempt to stop it before it goes any further …

And it just happens to mean we'll need to spend yet more billions of tax payer dollars on security programs, defence spending and nebulous agencies without oversight, who may or may not be spying on everybody.

If I was a government official, who's agency depends on ever-increasing amounts of funding, I'd make sure to let a few bits slip once in a while, just to remind the proles that they should still be afraid, that eternal war is unavoidable and that we must all sacrifice a bit of our liberties and a lot of our paychecks, so we can fund yet more security agencies.

Only the guilty have something to fear.

We have existing laws and existing agencies to handle this. Use those. Redirect the efforts a bit. Reorganize things. Combine agencies if it makes them more efficient.

As far as the border, it's a pipe dream to pour money into.

The border will NEVER be "secure enough". The North Korean border is one of the most heavily guarded and people still make it across.

How many billions of dollars are we willing to spend on it? How much of the US economy are we willing to burn up, while the competition in China continues to build theirs?

Well then the next option is do nothing, go on with daily business as usual … And wait and see how long it is before another 9/11, Boston bombing etc. … occurs …

That's the point though. We aren't doing nothing.
We are already spending ourselves into oblivion on defence and security.

We have more defence spending than the rest of the world combined and we have agencies filtering through the internet traffic of every citizen.

When are we secure enough? And if we're spending our current money in vain then stop those programs and create ones that do work.

Given how well the Afghans tolerate foreign invaders, I'm pretty sure that ISIS will find a much hotter reception than what they have in Iraq.

"I know at least in the US, providing money to terror organizations is illegal"

Maybe. Unless they're Irish terrorists, in which case they're allowed to carry on funding murder provided they file tax returns.