"Position of Colours?" Topic

Hello

After some agonizing about what type of Napoleonic game I wanted to play, I have decided for going to big battalions, i.e. representing the units with 8-12 figures per company in the "proper" formation (3 or 2 ranks). Now, the question is that I am not totally sure where the colours were located while the unit was deployed for action. Usually, in smaller battalions, I place them more or less in the center and in the front rank. However, my brain insist in make me believe that actually they were placed slightly behind the center company! together with the drummers and fifers and the commanding officer. Does it make sense? Or it is just my memory playing tricks?

Best

In a 10 company British battalion or a 6 company continental one?

I'll look at my diagrams but I'm on the train home now.

Both, Edwulf.

Thanks!

Dear Basileus,

For the position of Russian colors:
TMP link

All the drummers and fifers (if present) in a battalion, and the commander, were normally grouped to the right of the Grenadier Platoon (or "senior" platoon in the 6 platoon formations). The mounted commander and his adjudant were immediately to the left of the formed troops, then the drummers in 3 ranks to their left, then the fifers (if any). These positions were maintained both when ployed in column and deployed in line.

There was an alternative positioning if the commander wanted to lead from the center front of the battalion : here the commander, his adjudant and two drummers were located a few paces in front of the center of the batalion. Their place to the right of the senior platoon was then taken by the junior officer of that platoon.

There was also a ceremonial parade formation with slightly different positions, but this was not used in combat.

- Sasha

Thanks for the info Sasha. It's very useful.

It would be much more useful if I could tell it correctly!

Corrected text :
"were immediately to the right of the formed troops, then the drummers in 3 ranks to their right, then the fifers (if any)."
Sorry, I was looking at the formation as if from the enemy's view.

- Sasha

I know we like to be historical and all but given that each figure represents (depending on scale) anywhere from 20-50 men I just bung the colour bearers somewhere in the middle.

For the French, the Eagle was deployed between the 2nd and 3rd Fusilier companies. The Eagle party was 9 men deployed in three ranks. The first rank was the Eagle bearer himself (1st Porte Aigle) with his specific escorts (2nd and 3rd Porte Aigles) on either side. The two ranks behind were made up of the corporal fourriers (clerks) from the other companies.

A British colour party deployed between the 4th and 5th battalion companies in two ranks. The front rank was, from right to left, ensign with King's Colour, colour sergeant with pike and then ensign with regimental colour. The second rank was three colour sergeants.

In a Prussian battalion in 1813 – 15 the colour party deployed between the 2nd and 3rd companies. It consisted of an officer and 7 senior NCOs. The Front rank was, from right to left, the officer, a NCO, the colour bearer and then a NCO. The second rank was all NCOs.

In all cases the front rank of a colour party would line up with the front rank of the companies on either side as it would be used to dress the battalion as it manoeuvred.

Hope that helps.

Interesting how the description Artilleryman just gave of the French arrangement is EXACTLY the same as what the Union and Confederate armies used during the ACW (and earlier) :)

@basileus66

For the good old 9 company battalion or for the bad 6 company one??

Also it would depend on the tactical formation

They were certainly not placed behind the center company but were in line with all pelotons and in some armies they were sometimes placed some paces ahead of the companies or some few paces behind.

I was thinking for the 6 company thing :)

Anyway, I appreciate all the help. It is very useful.

How about for an Austrian Bn? I have seen some diagrams with the colours in the centre of the line and some with it on the right of the line.

One thing to keep in mind is that the colors had a real function, they were not just there to look pretty. Their function was to provide a visual reference point to help keep the line straight during maneuvers. In ACW armies there were also two flank markers with small guidons (I don't know whether Napoleonic armies had similar markers). The three flags working together, provided the points to keep the line straight. For them to do this they needed to be clearly visible to the troops. So the main colors would tend to be near the center of the line.

Without derailing the thread too far, may I just add that its a little irritating to see armies with 2 or more Colours per Battalion have them placed the wrong way around. The Sovereign's Colour would be placed in the Senior position, on the Right, with the Colonel's, or Regimental, colour placed on the left.

In the British/KGL service this is easy, as the Kings Colour, for line units, is the large Union flag, and the Colonel's Colour mainly consists of the facing colour.

Of course the Guards brigade did it differently! Their King's Colour was the Facing coloured flag, with the Union flag as the Colonel's colour…

So simple, yet so often gotten wrong…

Sparker – by pure chance all but one of my British Battalions have the colours configured as you mentioned above. Personally I didn't know that the Kings colour was on the right and just did it that way. I still think that given that the standard bearer represents 20-50 men it doesn't really matter :)

How clever to show the flag shot through with burnt edges…..that is a small touch I had never thought of. Spent cannonballs in the mud, the splash of shrapnel hitting Waterloo mud or pools of water, even blood spray as in Saving Private Ryan in 28mm……….done all them………….but that's a new one to me! Thanks

In the French infantry, the colour guard was integral part of the platoon right of the center of the battalion (4th fusilier platoon from 1791, 2nd fusilier platoon from 1808), and was always posted on this platoon's left wing.

So, contrary for example to the formation laid down in the Prussian 1809-1811-1812 regulations, it was not positioned "between" the platoons.

Here a drawing from Bardin's manuel d'infanterie, 1813 edition:

"How about for an Austrian Bn? I have seen some diagrams with the colours in the centre of the line and some with it on the right of the line."

Can you show the source which shows the colour at the right end of the line???

I would opt for centre of the line

"Can you show the source which shows the colour at the right end of the line???"

I first saw it in "Essling. Napoleon's First Defeat" by Gilles Boue. The formation diagrams show the colours on the right of the line.

Sparker has also mentioned an illustration or painting that shows an Austrian Bn with the colours on the right.

I have also seen a couple of other diagrams that show it thus but the sources elude me at the moment.

I looked at the plates of the Exerzier Reglement of 1807 which you can get at google books, when a battalion is in line the colour is in the center.

OK I have mine based in the centre anyway so that works for me.

Ya Ich Auch!

Good point, Sparker. It's almost as bad as positioning a colour party behind the corps of drums ;-)