"Tango, enough with the politics/current events links" Topic

Seems to me the main issue here are the new topics pushing older topics off the front page before viewers have a chance to see and /or respond.

Surely, That is a problem with the old architecture of the front page unable to handle a larger yield of traffic and not the fault of any one members chosen topics. Topics of which any member is free to read or pass over, as they wish. "by your command!"

you know…….
THE reason Bill is constructing a new version of TMP because this one can't handle the traffic anymore!

The stifles arising from this thread is mind boggling, isn't it?

Lets see if I can add to my trifle count too…..

You know…
A lot of Armand/Tango's dreaded and hated "current affairs/politics" threads get a LOT of traffic on them, and a LOT of good discussion.
So, he is NOT universally hated,

And some get 1 or 2 or maybe 0 replies. Like a lot of mine.

I have only picked up 2 or 3 strifles, mainly because those who WOULD strifle me for this have done so already.

The sun is setting. A man sits alone on a horse, a silhouette against the sky. A warm wind blows. He looks up.

"Your threads. They are like a feather on the wind."

He turns the horse towards the setting sun.

"The cries and lamentations are like whispers in the dark. For as the wind grows…can you hear it? It is the cheers, my friend. The cheers for Armand. They grow louder now. With it they carry a new cry. Viva Tango!"

The horse begins to walk into the sunset. A guitar begins to strum.

"I must go.

The people. They need me. But know this my friend.

Whether it is the cries and lamentations of the haters, or the cheers of the people…know, that the wild Tango01 CANNOT BE TAMED!"

A lone TMP member stands in the shadows of a tree.

"Go my friend.

Amicalment.

Amicalement."

Fin.

Freddy326: I can't understand why other members do this. I've re-read all my posts in this topic thread and I can't see how I have insulted, demeaned or hurt anyone's feelings. Yet, by simply expressing my opinion, on a site designed for that very purpose (the exchange of opinions/ideas) I accumulate stifles-?

79thPA: agreed.

@Joe-

Seriously, don't strain over the stifles. It's a broken mechanic- doesn't mean a thing.

@Joes Shop…..I've just got 5 and they from this topic as well!

I got some stifles from a comment I made in a discussion a while back about… freedom of speech. The irony nearly made my head explode.

Jeff & JT: on a rational level I know both of you are correct.

At the risk of sounding vulnerable, it still bothers me; the chance of being stifled will never stop me from posting my opinion but I'll admit the whole stifle system (as it currently exists) detracts from my enjoyment of TMP.

My stifles have doubled. :-))))) Viva Tango!

Major Bumsore,

Have a look at these threads re the Falklands:

TMP link
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link

R Mark Davies: thanks for posting those links. I did not know any of this info re Tango.

Excellent! My Stifle count is up to 52!

It is amazing to me that the same old Anti-Tango crowd spend such an enormous amount of time ranting about a guy who just posts articles about the Hobby and events that might be of interest to the Hobby.

If only you people could spend all that energy achieving world peace (Rolls eyes).

Fortunately, the Anti-Tango crowd largely appears to be people who I generally disagree with on most topics, so no harm on my side. Stifle away!

Keep up the good work Armand!

I think most of the people who stifle hardly ever post anyway, they just snipe from the shadows. Maybe they think it's like voting 'thumbs down' on a post.

Viva Tango!

You are probably right as I just picked up #10 for posting about stifles!

Like tracers, stifles point both ways. I picked up a few as well. Never understood how a system that works to break down communication is heralded as a "feature".

I must admit, with some distance and some humor, this thread has changed my mind on some things. I loved the links R Mark Davies posted that shows Tango interacting as a wargamer and a veteran. My respect to you sir. Still not a fan of your posting habits or your reluctance to engage in dialogue over it, but in the grand scheme of things, no big deal.

My regret is that I spent so much energy on it and that it turned so heated. Yet, I care about TMP and being here, so sometimes distance can be hard when you in the heat of it.

It does kind of suck that stuff like this causes so many stifles. Regardless of which side of the argument, less of us will be seeing each other and talking. That can only be a bad thing.

It does occur to me that the biggest complaint, the main page, would not be an issue if TMP used a different forum style system that allowed you follow threads and allowed for other tools to modify the way users interface.

Maybe TMP x.0 will have some of that.

I've had a good night's sleep, got some work done and then returned. I acknowledge that I can be wrong and get worked up about things based on misconceptions. But having reread this thread, I still stick by my posts.
Keith, you wouldn't have gotten any specific attention from me if you hadn't started in with insulting people based on whether or not they think someone else is annoying. Seriously, are we in some school yard where Bobby is going to be called a sycophant because he likes Joe and you don't?

"To Caesar, I make no apology. I was neither bullying or insulting Tango personally."
"…but I never personally called HIM anything…"

You think it's fine to insult other members here, so long as you do it broadly and not specific to any individuals?

"nor did I ever call for anything to be done to him or to have him treated differently."

By singling him out for his posts and writing tirade after tirade, you are treating him differently and you are advocating that something be done.

"You sir, need to get some perspective"

Perspective? You have been ranting about a guy who makes frequent posts on a website about toys. Talk about needing perspective.

"and stop accusing people of things they haven't done. I haven't "ganged" up on him (am I am Army of One?), and his defenders are legion, so I hardly think he's a poor victim of my personal abuse here."

You haven't ganged up on him? Did you start this topic about his posts hoping for a one-on-one conversation, or contact him privately? No, you jumped in on it with several others. That's ganging up on someone.

"To you I say get bent."

More insults. Can't you learn to disagree with others without feeling the need to insult them?

Have a look at these threads re the Falklands:

Many thanks. Very informative!

Its Monday now, no more holiday weekend, WHERE are the Editors?

My knowledge of the English language is not broad enough to find for all the thanks words that I want to said to my fellow members for their support.

A question comes to my mind … is this related to wargaming ?

Isn't a real waste of time and effort?

I regret that there are still people who do not appreciate or like my threads and I hope that in the future your opinion change .

It is something "new" in the forum and as always, all new stuff suffer resistance because people don't feel confortabe with changes . I understand that. What I do not accept is the insult and persecution per se.

Anyway , I hope the editors do not take any action against those who have violated the rules of the forum with personal attacks or in "group."

This is one of ten of these " hunts " and I hope this will soon pass into oblivion like the others.

I have responded to all messages sent to me by personal email and I hope I did well . Strange that none have been against my performace in the forum . I also thank that.

As I said , let's take a step back and give end the hunt.

By the way , the thread that I liked most is that of Iron Ivan Keith about " The sun is setting …" . Funny and well told (smile )

My friend Dogged… your thread is excellent. Thank you very much again.

Amicalement
Armand

The Editor (s) have little interest in the mobs rush to censor others. There can be no other reasonable explanation.

The plea for more supporting members of a few months ago ring hollow when seen in the light of this lack of action. What are the editors doing?

I posted this week about buildings. I got one comment that was relevant and two smart comments resulting from the spellchecker making some variation of "buildings" into "bullrings".

Its the sophmorish behavior found on TMP that has made it a poor place to visit of late. Look at the ringleaders here. The original poster has very few posts, most of which are responses, not initiatives.

A sad thread with a sadder (and ultimately more instructive) lack of moderation.

What do you expect The Editors to do?
What is the real problem? A long thread?
It's a personal attack on Tango but that's doesn't seem to be a crime around here… I remember similar (smaller) pogroms against Cacique Caribe long ago… and of course The OFM.

While vehemently disagreeing, for the most part people have been fairly civil… most anyone who cares has made his mind known and Tango himself has had his say.
No big need for divine intervention.

@captain canada- You're going to attack McWong over his post count (a number that is notoriously incorrect these days)? His have been some of the most tempered of replies, here and elsewhere. He posts prolifically to the sci fi boards. As far as valued contributions go, I'll take his discourse in spades.

Agree with Space Monkey, too, at least as far as the editors go. Although I think he crosses the political line, nothing else really breaks the rules. McWong and Iron Ivan Keith both asked him politely to adjust his behavior, and Tango is utterly indifferent. Nothing to accomplish, now, unless the upgrade ushers in some changes.

But Jeff, who are THEY to ask anyone to adjust their behavior? What business is it of theirs? Are they the Editors, or Tangoīs parents? This comment seems to be a bit high handed. And as for politely, Iron Ivan Keith called Tango a troll, hardly polite.

Jack- Why is it high handed, though? To me it's akin to asking someone loud in the theater to quiet down. In fairness also- I think Ivan apologized for some of his more pointed remarks upthread.

EDIT: Couldn't find an apology for "troll". Still stand by Ivan's posts as otherwise well tempered.

Itīs high handed because I donīt see that they have the right. In a theater everyone is there for a film or performance, and clearly not for a loud chat, but here it depends on your point of view. Many people feel that Tango contributes to this website while other, more vocal folks, feel otherwise, so it isnīt about an out of place loud theater patron.

I talked to Tango0 personally in thread and we seem to have worked things out. My apology was blanket for my barbed comments (including troll). In general, most of us here have deescalated things. Except those who have stifled others, this is how discourse can work.

I like TMP and people too much to stay mad, so even when things get heated, I like to stay around threads to try to smooth things over and find some common ground. Maybe that's a bit archaic a sentiment for the internet, but that's usually what I try to do.

Texas Jack: are not both sides of this talking? How is one side more "vocal" on a thread where both sides are talking? Volume level doesn't really translate.

Started to reply to Jack, but decided it's best to let it lie. :)

Jack- you're a scholar and a gentleman.

I propose that Tango should be a Editor.

Viva Tango!

Iron Ivan,

By vocal I mean no one starts threads saying I love Tangoīs posts, or at least not many, but threads like this come up almost weekly. But yes, both sides are talking in this thread, just like they have in all the countless others.

@Jeff Worley- we can agree to disagree with all the utmost respect

Just Jack: Fair enough on that point.

I did not look at the post count. I actually read many posts.

These personal attacks are unjustified.

KAM

To McWong73:

My real issues with some of his posts are that they are not wargaming related.
Not just politics and Current Affairs, but who the heck games with 1/8 scale busts?
Or 1/12 scale half nude girl models?
Well painted, yes.
BUT, IMO, not gaming related.

Models, yes. Those belong on modeling sites. TMP is a gaming site.

Movie links? IMO, go into the TMP Plus board.

If he'd just put a half-hitch restraint on the 'I must post everything' mentality, and just keep to things 'on gaming' topic here, or on the right boards, I think most folks would be happy to have him post here on TMP.

Just my two pence.

@richarDISNEY

Models, yes. Those belong on modeling sites. TMP is a gaming site.

I think you are wrong here. TMP is The Miniatures Page. There are boards whose titles include things like

"For the discussion of books, films and other media involving modern warfare and geopolitics, including fiction and non-fiction."

This site is way more than gaming.

Brian,
Good point, but the banner also states "a Web-Magazine for Miniature Wargamers".
So I always assumed it was a site for gaming information.
But I guess that it could also mean different things to different folks.

As for the movies, sure, if the poster says "HEY! Look at this cool fight scene. How would you game that?", then I can see it gaming related. (Again, using my assumption that this is a gaming site).

If its just a "here is a movie link" with no explanation on how it can be gaming related, IMO, it belongs on TMP Plus. Again, IMO.

Just posting to express my support for Tango.

The signal to noise ratio is occasionally the wrong side of optimal, but that's the same for all of us.

Keep posting my friend and don't let anyone dissuade you from sharing what is often interesting information.

How do you wargame your dislike of a specific TMP member?

What miniatures and rules?

I opened a Tango thread the other day. It was pointing out a new product I had just read about in the news section. I said to myself, why did you post that Tango, I just read it. Then I did something radical, I just clicked back and read something else. I didn't have a screaming hissy fit and I didn't want to kill Tango.

I later clicked on another one and came across a French company I had never heard of and ended up putting in an order.
I would say that the majority of topics I read from everyone are of no real interest, but sometimes they are.

This fuss is really sad, that someone can be moaned at for posting on here. Why the hell should they be limited to a certain amount of posts.
Even so if the stifle function stopped showing a persons topics then it might stop the complainers moaning. Maybe this feature is worth bringing in as it isn't just an anti-tango device.

Then we could go back to moaning about stifle and the editors hiring practice…or even wargaming…maybe

Tango has actually reignited my patriotism in the UK with all the Falklands Islands political posts .
Despite all the digs and baiting us Brits are none the worse for the experience ,just go with the flow as like politics these posts come and go flavour of the month style.

Sometimes this info can be really interesting ,other times you can just ignore them .

The original poster has very few posts, most of which are responses, not initiatives.

cap, I've been here as long as you have, but my original username went cactus and I was never able to re-login with it, so I created McWong73 and went full membership with it.

I don't play the number of games I once did due to real life getting in the way, but I still am involved in 15mm sci fi, ACW and moderns gaming – or rather I still buy 15mm sci fi and moderns gaming toys.

I've gone out of my way to be polite and genial in all of this, and for anyone who cares this is the first time I've asked Tango to turn the noise down. In all the other threads about Tango I've been supportive of him. That position changed as I have found it harder and harder to get to the good stuff in the message boards, especially when Tango makes 21 posts over a 100 minute period – and that was only half the days worth of posts from Tango. I too used to just ignore them, but when up to a third of all posts in a given period all come from Tango, well you can't deny that's a lot of Tango to get through.

If it's all kosher for Tango to make that much white noise, if you think he has an inherent right to that then it must go that folks have an equally inherent right to ask – politely – for him to turn it down a notch. Which is what I did, for the first time ever.

No burning torches, no calls for the town committee. Didn't go looking for a mob, which is why I prefaced my request with "I can only speak for myself".

And in terms of starting conversations here, anyone care to remember the Eldar R@pe diorama war from a few years ago? [raises hand] I started that, and I am so embarrassed that I initiated that thread I decided to think twice before posting links here. I hope that Tango can make the same learnings without the same fall out.

McWong

Fair enough. I disagree that there is a limit. I look at posts that interest me and skip those that do not. I have found some of Tango's to be in the former category. I am sure I have garnered many a stifle today for my posts, but do not like individuals being singled out for different treatment. I also posted under other names before this one.

I don't recall the post you identify. I hope that there were no calls for you to reduce your presence here. I hope that Tango does not have any fall out. And I trust that we can still get along after this discussion.

And I complement you on the manners you have shown here. We may disagree, but you have made your point in a respectful way.

KAM

Tango has posted links to my blog at least twice and I am grateful for that. I read some of his posts and I pass over others. Perhaps if those who complain about the number of posts Tango makes were instead making wargame related posts, there would be 250 new wargame specific threads.

The real problem is not that Tango writes too much, but rather that everyone else posts too little. Free speech means that sometimes people will say things you find annoying, but it's a small price to pay.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

The real problem is not that Tango writes too much, but rather that everyone else posts too little

There's a good deal of truth to this. Silencing Tango and, say, eliminating the posts that consist of "hey, leave TMP and check out MY blog!" would pretty much shut down this site.

Except for Napoleonic arguments, of course.

I guess that this really is a non issue to the Editors, only 398 people are bothered enough to use the stifle button.

Funny thing is that I have been posting less here and started a Blog which I then advertise on TMP, which then directs a few people away.

Its not worth spending too much time posting in great detail as I generally only get a few days exposure before I'm pushed off the front page. I also have to find somewhere to host the photos which is much easier to do on a Blog.

Cheers all.

Dan.

No, Tango just posts too much. His endless parade of new threads push lots of other interesting stuff off the main page. And as is continually pointed out, stifling him doesn't help with that.

He pays no attention to things others post or to things he has already posted.
For instance, the Total Extinction Kickstarter campaign…

posted by Tango as 'Of possible interest?' on the 15th Oct: TMP link

then again on the 23rd October: TMP link

then again on the 5th Nov: TMP link

Then again on the 2nd Dec: TMP link

Can you seriously say that that is the right way to behave? If there was new stuff to post, add it to the original thread. And maybe offer an opinion about it.

I haven't renewed my supporting membership, and there are many others who feel the same way. Like it or not, this will hurt TMP financially.

agree with lovejoy

I guess that this really is a non issue to the Editors, only 398 people are bothered enough to use the stifle button

That's correct. Get a sense of perspective. People are more outraged over Captain Dewell's 'offensive' postings than Tango's immense contribution. Let Tango be.

Go Tango go.

Lovejoy, thats because he doesnt even read his own posts, just the headlines.