"To R Mark Davies (Falkland/Malvinas War)." Topic

My dear friend, as I cannot comunicate with you by mail, I post here these pages of possible interest about the Falkland (Malvinas) War.

link

and specially this one (unfortunally in french) but I hope you can handle with a good translator.(search down to the page for pics).
laguerredesmalouines.fr

Also (I'm pretty sure you know this one).
link

At last.
link
(any doubt please no doubt to ask).

Hope you enjoy (and anybody who like the wargame that little war).

Amicalement
Armand

Armand, those are very interesting links. However, I do wonder why your government will not respect the fact that 100% of the Falkland Islanders wish to remain British?

I am sure this may be approaching the Blue Fez, but does not the right of self-determination suggest that this is an open and shut case?

I do apreciate your efforts, but in this instance I think you'll find that there are some strong opinions floating about.

Regards

Richard

Where is the green cheese on the moon?

Govts have an habit of not respecting peoples wishes after all the population of Diego Garcia didn't want to be chucked off that island.

Politics aside, thanks for the links Armand.

I have been researching that Conflict and have been eyeing up the Gripping Beast range of figures. I just wish I could get a Solido AML-90 for under 25 pounds. Any idea of what colour they were painted?

Dan.

Dear Dan how about that?

link

My friend toofatlardies, my effords had to do only with wargaming.
I respect all the strong opinions floating about as I hope also mine is respected too.(smile).
Never had or would comments about the "politic" situation of the Islands.

Glad you enjoy the sites guys!.

Amicalement
Armand

Thanks Armand, those photos are great.

I just this minute dug up a photo of the Panhard at the Tank Museum taken by me around 1984/85. Its a frontal view so its hard to see the paint scheme.

Dan.

No mention my friend.
Happy to help a little.(smile).

Amicalement
Armand

Tallyhobiggles-
RH Models is releasing a 20mm Falklands range- easier to get vehicles for and cheaper than 28mm compatibles….

Thanks Gaz, I just missed out on another AML-90 which went for 27 pounds.

I might just check out RH models but really prefer 28mm.

Dan.

Those Panhards are not exactly built for BMW drivers, where are the safety features, driver air bags, retactable cushioned seats!!!!!

I tell you what is the world coming too.

Nice pics though Armand :)

Dan, no pics I'm afraid but 1:56 scale AML-60 and AML-90 from Force of Arms here:

link

Bob.

It is not something that I have any intention of wargaming as I experienced the 1:1 scale version, but thanks for the French website Armand:),

Glad you had enjoy the links boys!.

Amicalement
Armand

Bob thanks I had been checking that out as an alternative.

Dan.

Malvinas War seems to be an interesting period to wargame. Also if i'm a little sad to wargame something that i remenber to have followed on the media and thought about the victims (useless sinking of Belgrano ecc..).
Said that i 've begun to purchase and organise some 20mm troop types (plastic conversions and lead ones)and i think that the scaled down Toes of troops (land) involved is quite affordable and playable..I'm thinking that the eroic Argentine defence at the battle of Prado del Ganso and the epic retreat of the small undergunned Grupo de Combate of the young conscripts from IR 25 after San Carlos landing and only after having caused sensible losses to the British Armada that they faced alone during the D-Day are some good examples to play. Years ago i managed to simulate on the wargame table with modified ESCI and Matchbox minis the famous encounter of Top Malo House but it was an easy victory for the Argentine Commandos..probabbly because my ruleset does'nt simulate realistically the surprise effect of the Marine party that carried the day.
As an answer to some postings that i 've just read i must add the point of view of a neutral observer that is, in my opinion, to be quite strange that a former Imperial Power could hold his hands of a land more than 14.000 Km away from his government..and in such vintage and anti historical way..the impression is that something is radically changing in South America ..i really don't like the populistic approach to everything, inclunding revamping Malvinas case, by cleaver Argentine PM Christina Kircher..but the overall support and unity of the whole Latin continent (see the speeches by leaders like Humala, Chavez..ecc..) in front of this matter dserve more attention and a rethinking from GB of his old fashion politics.
Finally i strongly suggest to wargamers the book "Razor's Edge: The Unofficial History of the Falklands War" by Bichno- incredibly pro British and sometime, in my opinion, offensive in some remarks.. but full of fantastic maps and diagrams of every battle and skirmishes down to patrol level. On the Argentine side i purchased and found quite interesting the following "Comandos en acción: el Ejército en Malvinas " by Moreno..both easily purchasable on the net.

Cheers Tango, the second and fourth links are especially good!

There's also a superb essay on the myths and realities of Falklands history here: PDF link

Folgore,
The inhabitants of the Falklands are British and wish to remain so; that trumps any claim based on location. There is nothing vintage or old fashioned about it; the case is based on self-determination. If anything, the Argentine claim, as well as being unfounded, could be described as both vintage and old fashioned as it is based (inaccurately) on a very old fashioned view of the nature of the original Argentine state.

Folgore,

As Colin says; the democratic wishes of the Falklanders trump the imperial or colonial wishes of any power, including the UK.

That notwithstanding, if historical imperial claims were a valid reasons for imposing colonial rule on a dissenting population (as Argentina still wishes to do), Argentina would still be up the Rio Plata without a paddle, as the Argentine version of 'history' has been thoroughly debunked, discredited, demolished, destroyed and dismissed. One such demolition is the essay I linked above.

The inhabitants of the Falklands are British and wish to remain so; that trumps any claim based on location. There is nothing vintage or old fashioned about it; the case is based on self-determination.

This to me makes much sense.
They are British and when threatened they were protected by the British Army.
The British travelled a heck of a long way at a massive cost in all senses of the word to protect those people.

There was no oil, gold, or riches to be gained from going.
All that was gained was the democratic right of the British subjects there to remain free and under British rule.

This is how it seems to me as a layman.

Mrk Davies and the other gents
i understand and apreciate your kind, elegant and moderate explanations to me ..but as i'm not a British subject i cannot perceive the entire approach as you did..but also if i'm a fan of colonial history in the XIX century (my favourite game is TSTAF) , also if i've a conservative and eurocentric approach to history..i still have some doubts about the legitimation, nowdays, of the right of a European power to rule a land so far away from home..probably i would have same undefined and critical points of view if i thought about Guadeloupe, Martinique, Belize or Réunion..also if in some DOM or TOM's the native population choosed, for economic reasons, to carry on with the tricolour flag.

My friend Mark, happy you had enjoy them!.
My friend Folgore, glad to hear about you again here!.(smile).

Amicalement
Armand

Folgore,

The UK does not rule the Falklands; they are self governing with a largely elected governing council.

The key, and in fact only, legitimate point is that the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands regard themselves as British and wish to remain so. The British viewpoint is not about colonialism, apart from opposing the planned colonialism of the Argentine government, but about defending the right to self-determination of the Falkland Islanders. Some of us fought to maintain that fundamental right and are proud that we did so against a colonising fascist dictatorship.

Angel,

Not just the pongos, the most important service and the air force played their parts too;).