"What 15mm Figures For Prehistoric "Doggerland"???" Topic

donsmaps.com/icemaps.html

Your team goes back 16,000 years and makes contact with the natives of that time …

Dan

Copplestone Casting's Picts would work. The Trolls would make decent monsters too.

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They would be typical late Neolithic humans.

Wow, best map ive ever seen of Doggerland! Excellent, thanks. Been painting 10mm stuff for fantasy battles around Doggerland. Not sure for 15mm, tempting though it is.

Republic of Tolworth,

You might like these other maps too then:

link

link

Dan

"Careful, chaps… the bushes are full of Doggers."

One option, if you're feeling ambitious, is to slightly modify some Northern European barbarian figures to represent Ice Age inhabitants of Doggerland.

Find some with separate shields, such as Splintered Light or Blue Moon, and carve away any anachronistic items such as sword scabbards, etc. You can leave knife sheaths since the concealed blade may be imagined as stone. You might be able to carve axes in such a way to represent clubs or replace them completely with something to represent a club. Spear blades can be modified to look like stone.

By 16,000 years ago the people were fully modern and were making clothing with bone needles and thread from animal sinew so any trousers and tunics are okay for the most part. These would be skins. Any animal fur vests or cloaks are fine, just file away any brooches or similar metal objects.

Perhaps rebelminis wild elves would suit your tastes if you want less of that neanderthal look (in line with rvandusen's comments)

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I haven't seen them in person, but they look like they'll fit the part. There's some mounted figures, unfortunately this is far, far too early for domestication of the horse.

They also have a "bear clan" group that may also work for you. Again, a couple of minis that may not work.

I've got the 15mm Demonworld (old HOBBY PRODUCTS ) Mammoth Hunters. A bunch of fur clad fellows with 2-man lift tree truck battering rams.

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Have left hand or right hand versions.

You could get them from Brookhurst hobbys.

link &C=4&D=1301&R=101&N=50&M=HOBBY PRODUCTS&T=&SC=&DR=&SD=

Maybe also look at
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Blue Moon Germanic figures look suitable for modification. Leave the shields off, remove swords and scabbards. I think a tunic could be added with greenstuff, or leave bare-chested for summer. I like the hairstyles.

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Even leaving the swords in the hands of the sword-wielders and sculpting a club or stone ax over the sword seems possible.

I find this a fascinating subject.

John T

I think the shields on those blue moon's would be fine, maybe with some modification, so long as they were painted as hide or wooden shields. Some Native American tribes used shields, so I think inferring their during this period is justifiable. Maybe round the edges a bit and make that big "Tooth" look like something from a mastodon or similar large animal.

I agree that shields are possible. People 16,000 years ago were not idiots and if they engaged in any inter-group conflict shields of some kind seem like an obvious invention.
It's likely that any shields would be of hide or wicker or some other perishable material and so would not be preserved in any case.

What about missile weapons?

Slings are a definite option. They were handy for knocking down birds and surely handy for knocking someone on the head. It may even have been the case that every man carried a sling and some stones about his person. In one Mesolithic site the excavators found fired-clay balls. I wonder if these could have been sling bullets?

Spear-throwers/Atalatls might be used and seem easy enough to make.

Bows and arrows are more controversial since the earliest examples of archery equipment are later, but it is also true that projectile points similar to arrowheads are known from 64,000 years ago in South Africa, but it must be admitted that it is hard to tell an arrowhead from the head of a spear-thrower dart.

Know, O prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars … Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. -- The Nemedian Chronicles

This is pretty awesome; I love these maps. Temper your sound historical footing with a good dose of artistic licence. I would go for broke!
Thanks for the link.

Ron

Is this your inspiration?
link

Just remember lads, these are Palaeolithic hunter gatherers your talking about – not settled populations with abundant surplus.

Granted they may be Mesolithic by the end of the period so some of their tools might be slightly more complex, but still basic in comparison to Neolithic stuff.

Just remember lads, these are Palaeolithic hunter gatherers your talking about – not settled populations with abundant surplus.

Stop interrupting my Hyborean dreams with your 'facts' and 'figures', man! :P

Anyway, the civs would tend to have been in the warm, lowlands, and the waves would have 'drown(ed) them right out', to quote Bill Cosby.

Who knows what lies between the waves and sediment?

Spear-throwers/Atalatls might be used and seem easy enough to make.

I was just thinking a fairly easy convert of a sword, and an incorporated handle suggests 'civi-cation'.

'This holy season, the king must hunt the mammoth in the old ways!'

Edit: To bring this into VSF, sea floor covered bubble under the channel? Discovered by one of the chunnel attempts?

Doug

Been looking at the 'tribes' on fighting 15s. Some nice stuff with the figures there. Stone weapons, antlers and atl-atls. Bit pricey, but worth it for a small clan group. Might use them and some copplestone picts.
Another good map there Dan.

This will be a fun project. Time to go watch that B movie 10,000 bc.

About the use of spear throwers (atl-atl) in the "Old World":

donsmaps.com/atlatl.html

TMP link
TMP link

Dan

Have you seen Splintered Lights Bear Clan?

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The command, spear and axes are the ones I am thinking of. They have stone tipped weapons.

Mike

Those could definitely work!

Dan
groups.yahoo.com/group/cavewars

I have the Bear Clan Command and Spears. They fit very well with the Rebels Minis Cavemen (if anything a bit smaller than them.)and the Irregular TUSK figures.
The nice thing with the Bear Clan command is you get 2 x "Jane" figures.

Some of those bear clan figures will be perfect! Thanks for the heads up on those.

I've just ordered some copplestone picts as my main figures and will expand tribe by tribe I think.

As mine will be 'fantasy' version I'm also sorting some ancestral spirits and elementals for the shaman to summon.

Very interesting,I'll have to see if Don has any maps of the New Guinea/Australia area for Dead Earth Saga.

There are theories that these drowned lands once had a seafaring civilization whose legend has come down to us as Atlantis. Another theory is that the continental ice sheets failed catastrophicly in 3 pulses thus drowning a civilization and sparing the fringe barbarians.

Mugwump

What about Freikorps15 "Koori"??? I'm surprised noone has mentioned them. They would be perfect.

I always find such maps fascinating. The fact that humans were witnesses to the events postulated makes them even more so. Thanks for posting.

Bob,

There's still plenty of room for more 15mm manufacturers of prehistorics (hint, hint).

link

Dan
TMP link

Love to get some in production, but I feel the sales would be low. I'm sure my sculptor would be up to the challenge. Just can't see it paying off though :(

…just file away any brooches or similar metal objects.

Sorry to bring this up so late, but weren't there examples of some ornamentation? Bone and shell? No details, mind you…

However, I'll be the first to admit lack of study, and clarity, about the range of -lithics. ;->=

Found an atlatl point in the backyard, and was shocked to find it was 'archaic period'.

Doug

What rules would you use for inter tribal warfare of this period ? Is there a set with small group basing (2-4 figs on a base ?)

I'm thinking of 15mm using these guys

Pete

Assuming you mean stone age tribes (I prefer to dream Hyborean dreams with worked gold or other metals), I don't know of any small-group games.

Unless you're talking DBA or something similar, where the number of figures on the base doesn't really matter!

Gutroth,

Did you have any specific figures in mind?

Dan
groups.yahoo.com/group/cavewars

**Blush**

I meant to copy in the link to MY figures.

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Lion,

You should try building something like this then:

TMP link

TMP link

Dan

The idea has crossed my mind, CC, but major terrain works like that aren't going to happen until I have a place with a dedicated hobby/gaming room.

Though weren't the Old Kingdom Egyptians mostly a stone-age society, with not a lot of metal tools?

Mick Yarrow Miniatures have a range of Northern European Barbarians that might suit, 15mm that is.

OKE was indeed largely late stone age, but I'm looking for something several thousand years earlier than that.

I would love it if someone found under the sea structures in Doggerland, like those on Malta.

Dan
TMP link

The Irish ones I saw were smaller built against hills.

But look quite the same.

Lee