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"Why the "Empire Hatred"?" Topic

98 Posts

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Action Log

05 Jul 2013 11:24 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Removed from Needs More Boobies board

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8,332 hits since 2 Jul 2013
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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le Grande Quartier General03 Jul 2013 8:15 a.m. PST

Happy summer everyone :)

Edwulf03 Jul 2013 8:45 a.m. PST

No idea why any one would "hate" a rules set. Dislike. Fair enough.

Either way. If you don't like them, leave em to the folk that do.

EagleSixFive03 Jul 2013 10:32 a.m. PST

Well, the emperor just isn't a very nice guy, what with stormtroopers stomping all over the place………Don't get me started on Darth Vader, what a total b@$t@rd!…………

Erm, sorry, wrong empire.

Lion in the Stars03 Jul 2013 1:31 p.m. PST

Reading the Empire board made me realize that I have no desire to play the game.

Haven't been back there in several years!

le Grande Quartier General03 Jul 2013 8:21 p.m. PST

As we all well know, sometimes the problem ain't the rules.

Cerberus031103 Jul 2013 9:52 p.m. PST

In this case however, it is.

Davout197203 Jul 2013 11:08 p.m. PST

Well, I guess from the "haters" out there, we can assume only about 1% of pewter pushers actually enjoy a good set of rules like this. I am part of that 1%, and would seriously consider dropping my membership, if this site folded. I have gleaned some valuable info over the last couple years from other knuckleheads who post here. Seriously, I appreciate our discussions, though I have to admit (as in this thread), you have to sift through the garbage posts to find a gem or two. Doesn't bother me in the least that others have negative comments, as it adds flavor to any discussion, and occasionally, someone gets it dead on correct. Plus, in terms of basing units, unit strengths, how another gamer combines units, etc it gives me a different perspective on how I run my own units. I have over 10,000 figures, so I take serious the posts here, if, for no other reason, than to make sure I am current with the rest of the gaming world.

I don't knock others who choose to play simplistic rules; I just don't expect them to bully me off any site, because it is not to their liking. After all, win, lose or draw, we are all just pewter pushers and dice rollers. We share that common bond, no matter how simplistic or complicated the rules set we use. We all use what makes us happy; what gives us a great satisfaction at the end of a game, like a good meal, or a woman's touch.

I agree with your comments, John. Live and let live; to each his own. Let the site stand…

TelesticWarrior04 Jul 2013 4:27 a.m. PST

+1 Davout1972

John Leahy04 Jul 2013 9:35 p.m. PST

Hi, I believe the site is in no danger. Like I said in my previous comment and as several others have stated I doubt most of the folks advocating the boards elimination could care one way or the other about Empire. I played it for about a year or so until lack of players made it impossible. I had taught a few other and thought there were some cool ideas in the rules.

However, there is a principle involved. There simply are boards that see little or no use. Martin R has it right. When topics drop off the front page they can often be too difficult to find. The search engine isn't always a great help. I would favor archiving all material on a board being eliminated or moving it to a similar one.

For example, explain why there is a 6mm scifi board and a Dirtside one? I know. Bill likes Dirtside. However, consider that the most recent top 3 busiest Dirtside posts have 2 of those 3 threads crossposted to 6mm scifi too. Seems a little silly.



Bandit06 Jul 2013 6:39 a.m. PST

With something as polarizing as Empire there is a question as to if having a dedicated board keeps the topics (and flames) more localized to that board, allowing the general population to better ignore them if they so choose, or if having the board drives more flaming because it entices those who dislike the topic.


The Bandit

le Grande Quartier General06 Jul 2013 9:30 a.m. PST

I still don't even remotely understand what all the fuss about Empire is actualy about-why on earth is a rules set this polarizing or provocative to anyone? In what meanigful way does it matter who likes them or doesnt,and why? Who cares about one more board?

Yet, apparently it does so I am missing something. Probably something I would prefer to ignore anyway, come to it.

AussieAndy Supporting Member of TMP07 Jul 2013 8:42 p.m. PST

I suspect that part of the antipathy tends to come from Mr Bowden's approach, which, reading between the lines, seems to be "Those who play Empire are simulating history and the rest of you are just playing with toy soldiers". A bit of the same thing comes through in his books.

That being said, I in no way begrudge Empire players a separate board. Indeed, I think that Empire is a fine game in many ways, provided that you have the ability to leave battles set up for a long time.

Trajanus09 Jul 2013 5:34 a.m. PST

provided that you have the ability to leave battles set up for a long time

Essentially that's the key. We always thought a house with a spare room or basement was the answer. If you don't have one its kind of an expensive wargames accessory though.

Dexter Ward19 Jul 2013 4:05 a.m. PST

Dabout1972 wrote:
I don't knock others who choose to play simplistic rules
You just did, by using the word 'simplistic'.

le Grande Quartier General19 Jul 2013 7:31 a.m. PST

I think Todd Fischer did a good job of streamlining much of the time consuming mechanics of Empire in Republic & Empire, which I consider a real improvement. If you like(d) Empire, it is really worth a go. Some real repairs to some of the historical inaccuracies that turned folks away as well.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2013 3:24 p.m. PST

Played it for years and we had a good group so it was enjoyable. Really don't see the point re eliminating the board.


J. P. Kelly

SJDonovan19 Jul 2013 3:45 p.m. PST

The board must stand! So long as the board stands Connard Sage walks amongst us!

14Bore19 Jul 2013 4:34 p.m. PST

I'm still playing it, and do miss Connard Sage.

ColonelToffeeApple19 Jul 2013 4:35 p.m. PST

What happened to Connard Sage?

Etranger19 Jul 2013 7:07 p.m. PST

He was assimilated….

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2013 4:00 a.m. PST

Who is Connard Sage?


J. P. Kelly

Nasty Canasta20 Jul 2013 5:29 a.m. PST

More bandwidth. You can never have enough bandwidth.

BullDog6920 Jul 2013 11:11 a.m. PST

Who is Connard Sage?

I miss him – I loved the way he used to get all hot and bothered at the very mention of Field Marshal Haig.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2013 5:21 a.m. PST

I might miss him if I knew who he was…..


J. P. Kelly

IanB340618 Aug 2013 8:32 a.m. PST

Frankly, any game that takes longer to play than the actual battle has a problem…..

Maxshadow20 Aug 2013 5:32 a.m. PST

I'd play Empire if I could only find a place to buy them!
BTW tricky way to raise a boards post count.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP20 Aug 2013 8:46 a.m. PST

Very tricky! LOL

John Miller20 Aug 2013 6:16 p.m. PST

Being a relative newcomer to TMP and a computer idiot I am not aware of the reasons for keeping or not keeping the Empire site but as an avid Empire player I would like to say I would very much enjoy discussing the game with other interested players when the opportunity presents itself.

John Miller

Maxshadow20 Aug 2013 7:48 p.m. PST

If that's the case then its serving its purpose John.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2013 5:27 a.m. PST


Mithmee Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2013 5:57 p.m. PST

I got my start in Napoleonics with Empire back in the mid to late 1980's.

There are many things that I like from it and many things I don't like.

Like that the dice rolling is at a minimum.

Dislike that you can't fight a battle that was fought in real time 8-10 hours (Waterloo, Borodino etc…) in the same amount of time.

Want to fight one of the above you better schedule out a few weekends.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2013 6:14 p.m. PST

True, no argument there.

WarDepotDavid05 Sep 2013 8:14 p.m. PST

Depends on who you play with.

We play Waterloo in less than 6.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP06 Sep 2013 4:45 a.m. PST

Then I assume you have a group of very experienced players-?

John Miller06 Sep 2013 2:28 p.m. PST

In reference to the remarks about Empire concerning the lenght of the games, myself and my military minded companions play Empire at least twice a month, on Sunday afternoons, and have the luxury of leaving the table set up when the game is not complete. We are also experianced players who have been playing for many years. Due to the extensive skylarking and general carousing that goes on at these miniature bloodlettings the games are rarely decided in one afternoon. I believe however, that if we put our hearts into it, we could finsish a battle whose historic duration was eight to ten hours in that lenght of time. (That being said, we very seldom fight historical battles, but instead have randomly generated scenarios based on a given campaign.)

John Miller

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP06 Sep 2013 2:54 p.m. PST

John: sounds like a great group to game with!

John Miller06 Sep 2013 6:47 p.m. PST

Joes Shop: Yes, we are very fortunate in that respect.

John Miller

WarDepotDavid10 Sep 2013 4:08 p.m. PST

=> Joe: We have 3 experience players that have played Empire for about 15-20 years and 3 noobs having begun this year.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP11 Sep 2013 5:10 a.m. PST

A good mix: I've been playing since 1979.

Larry R11 Sep 2013 5:37 a.m. PST

I'm with OFM. If you delete Empire board then delete all the other rule specific boards. Don't like don't read it simple. And I have a boxed set of Empire IV I've never played but will someday I suppose

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2013 4:37 a.m. PST

Larry: agreed.

Mithmee Supporting Member of TMP29 Oct 2013 5:50 p.m. PST

Well of then the fact that certain units are Gods (I.E. French Olf Guard) and that other units are pure trash (I.E. most Milita) it could be made playable.

It does have issues with getting a real battle fought in the same time as the actual battle was fought.

Ways to improve it are put in more realistic values for the troops.

True Elite units should be considered better than Milita but when it came to shooting 540 Miltia shooting at something will hit something.

The thing is that they would be more likely to break so morale would be way lower.

I got my start in Napoleonics with these rules.

But our gaming group decided that many house rules were needed to speed up play.

By the time we were done we could fight 4-5 Corps per side in a day's time, which for these rules is unheard of.

bakblast06 Dec 2013 8:48 p.m. PST

The one thing I believe no one can dispute is that Empire is a fantastic referance source for the period. Even if you hate the rules the appendix alone is worth owning them.

MarescialloDiCampo26 Dec 2013 12:40 p.m. PST

Started Napoleonics in mid (?) 1970s tahnks to Empire and a patient older gamer in Alief Texas…

BTW – What did happen to Connard Sage?

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP26 Dec 2013 3:51 p.m. PST

Good question…-?

Whirlwind26 Dec 2013 4:04 p.m. PST

The editor locked him out after this one I think:

TMP link

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP27 Dec 2013 5:47 a.m. PST

Whirlwind: thanks.

MarescialloDiCampo02 Jan 2014 1:37 p.m. PST

Thanks, well that at least explains

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