"Why the "Empire Hatred"?" Topic

Happy summer everyone :)

No idea why any one would "hate" a rules set. Dislike. Fair enough.

Either way. If you don't like them, leave em to the folk that do.

Well, the emperor just isn't a very nice guy, what with stormtroopers stomping all over the place………Don't get me started on Darth Vader, what a total b@$t@rd!…………

Erm, sorry, wrong empire.

Reading the Empire board made me realize that I have no desire to play the game.

Haven't been back there in several years!

As we all well know, sometimes the problem ain't the rules.

In this case however, it is.

Well, I guess from the "haters" out there, we can assume only about 1% of pewter pushers actually enjoy a good set of rules like this. I am part of that 1%, and would seriously consider dropping my membership, if this site folded. I have gleaned some valuable info over the last couple years from other knuckleheads who post here. Seriously, I appreciate our discussions, though I have to admit (as in this thread), you have to sift through the garbage posts to find a gem or two. Doesn't bother me in the least that others have negative comments, as it adds flavor to any discussion, and occasionally, someone gets it dead on correct. Plus, in terms of basing units, unit strengths, how another gamer combines units, etc it gives me a different perspective on how I run my own units. I have over 10,000 figures, so I take serious the posts here, if, for no other reason, than to make sure I am current with the rest of the gaming world.

I don't knock others who choose to play simplistic rules; I just don't expect them to bully me off any site, because it is not to their liking. After all, win, lose or draw, we are all just pewter pushers and dice rollers. We share that common bond, no matter how simplistic or complicated the rules set we use. We all use what makes us happy; what gives us a great satisfaction at the end of a game, like a good meal, or a woman's touch.

I agree with your comments, John. Live and let live; to each his own. Let the site stand…

+1 Davout1972

Hi, I believe the site is in no danger. Like I said in my previous comment and as several others have stated I doubt most of the folks advocating the boards elimination could care one way or the other about Empire. I played it for about a year or so until lack of players made it impossible. I had taught a few other and thought there were some cool ideas in the rules.

However, there is a principle involved. There simply are boards that see little or no use. Martin R has it right. When topics drop off the front page they can often be too difficult to find. The search engine isn't always a great help. I would favor archiving all material on a board being eliminated or moving it to a similar one.

For example, explain why there is a 6mm scifi board and a Dirtside one? I know. Bill likes Dirtside. However, consider that the most recent top 3 busiest Dirtside posts have 2 of those 3 threads crossposted to 6mm scifi too. Seems a little silly.

Thanks,

John

With something as polarizing as Empire there is a question as to if having a dedicated board keeps the topics (and flames) more localized to that board, allowing the general population to better ignore them if they so choose, or if having the board drives more flaming because it entices those who dislike the topic.

Cheers,

The Bandit

I still don't even remotely understand what all the fuss about Empire is actualy about-why on earth is a rules set this polarizing or provocative to anyone? In what meanigful way does it matter who likes them or doesnt,and why? Who cares about one more board?

Yet, apparently it does so I am missing something. Probably something I would prefer to ignore anyway, come to it.

napoleoniccampaigns.com

I suspect that part of the antipathy tends to come from Mr Bowden's approach, which, reading between the lines, seems to be "Those who play Empire are simulating history and the rest of you are just playing with toy soldiers". A bit of the same thing comes through in his books.

That being said, I in no way begrudge Empire players a separate board. Indeed, I think that Empire is a fine game in many ways, provided that you have the ability to leave battles set up for a long time.

provided that you have the ability to leave battles set up for a long time

Essentially that's the key. We always thought a house with a spare room or basement was the answer. If you don't have one its kind of an expensive wargames accessory though.

Dabout1972 wrote:
I don't knock others who choose to play simplistic rules
----------
You just did, by using the word 'simplistic'.

I think Todd Fischer did a good job of streamlining much of the time consuming mechanics of Empire in Republic & Empire, which I consider a real improvement. If you like(d) Empire, it is really worth a go. Some real repairs to some of the historical inaccuracies that turned folks away as well.

Played it for years and we had a good group so it was enjoyable. Really don't see the point re eliminating the board.

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

The board must stand! So long as the board stands Connard Sage walks amongst us!

I'm still playing it, and do miss Connard Sage.

What happened to Connard Sage?

He was assimilated….

Who is Connard Sage?

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

More bandwidth. You can never have enough bandwidth.

Who is Connard Sage?

I miss him – I loved the way he used to get all hot and bothered at the very mention of Field Marshal Haig.

I might miss him if I knew who he was…..

Regards,

J. P. Kelly

Frankly, any game that takes longer to play than the actual battle has a problem…..

I'd play Empire if I could only find a place to buy them!
BTW tricky way to raise a boards post count.

Very tricky! LOL

Being a relative newcomer to TMP and a computer idiot I am not aware of the reasons for keeping or not keeping the Empire site but as an avid Empire player I would like to say I would very much enjoy discussing the game with other interested players when the opportunity presents itself.

John Miller

If that's the case then its serving its purpose John.

Agreed.

I got my start in Napoleonics with Empire back in the mid to late 1980's.

There are many things that I like from it and many things I don't like.

Like that the dice rolling is at a minimum.

Dislike that you can't fight a battle that was fought in real time 8-10 hours (Waterloo, Borodino etc…) in the same amount of time.

Want to fight one of the above you better schedule out a few weekends.

True, no argument there.

Depends on who you play with.

We play Waterloo in less than 6.

Then I assume you have a group of very experienced players-?

In reference to the remarks about Empire concerning the lenght of the games, myself and my military minded companions play Empire at least twice a month, on Sunday afternoons, and have the luxury of leaving the table set up when the game is not complete. We are also experianced players who have been playing for many years. Due to the extensive skylarking and general carousing that goes on at these miniature bloodlettings the games are rarely decided in one afternoon. I believe however, that if we put our hearts into it, we could finsish a battle whose historic duration was eight to ten hours in that lenght of time. (That being said, we very seldom fight historical battles, but instead have randomly generated scenarios based on a given campaign.)

John Miller

John: sounds like a great group to game with!

Joes Shop: Yes, we are very fortunate in that respect.

John Miller

=> Joe: We have 3 experience players that have played Empire for about 15-20 years and 3 noobs having begun this year.

A good mix: I've been playing since 1979.

I'm with OFM. If you delete Empire board then delete all the other rule specific boards. Don't like don't read it simple. And I have a boxed set of Empire IV I've never played but will someday I suppose

Larry: agreed.

Well of then the fact that certain units are Gods (I.E. French Olf Guard) and that other units are pure trash (I.E. most Milita) it could be made playable.

It does have issues with getting a real battle fought in the same time as the actual battle was fought.

Ways to improve it are put in more realistic values for the troops.

True Elite units should be considered better than Milita but when it came to shooting 540 Miltia shooting at something will hit something.

The thing is that they would be more likely to break so morale would be way lower.

I got my start in Napoleonics with these rules.

But our gaming group decided that many house rules were needed to speed up play.

By the time we were done we could fight 4-5 Corps per side in a day's time, which for these rules is unheard of.

The one thing I believe no one can dispute is that Empire is a fantastic referance source for the period. Even if you hate the rules the appendix alone is worth owning them.

Started Napoleonics in mid (?) 1970s tahnks to Empire and a patient older gamer in Alief Texas…

BTW – What did happen to Connard Sage?

Good question…-?

The editor locked him out after this one I think:

TMP link

Whirlwind: thanks.

Thanks, well that at least explains