"Syrian Free Army captured some very old assault rifles..." Topic

So, it appears the Syrian rebels have acquired some old StG 44 rifles and ammo.
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Apparently they even found some ammo for them.
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Has anyone else heard this? Can anyone confirm these are the real deal?

The one in the video looks to be in mint condition, and the barrel looks too short to me, leading me to wonder if these are actually StG44s. I'm no expert, but I bet a few users on TMP are experts enough to identify these.

Now, if they can only get some of the original owners to help them out, they'll be in business…

I wouldn't be surprised. The Osprey on German assault rifles
mentions them being found in the mid -East in the 80's and 90's. I would think that ammo would be an issue tho.And in the end with so many AK's avaliable who would want a StG? It's heavier, has ammo avaliability issues and the bores are probably screwed up from firing corrosive ammo.From what I understand the Chinese have been dumping AKs on the world market at bargin basement prices since they they went with their new assault rifle in 5.8 so again, why bother?

1st link -How cool is that.
2nd link – hope he found a LOT of ammo, I guess at least he's not shooting up in the air celebrating something.

2nd link the way he's holding the StG and using the sights he'd be lucky to hit the side of a barn at 10 feet ! :)

A young friend found 3 MG-42's in Iraq, with Waffen stamps.

Dennis – that seems to be pretty much par for the course in that part of the world.

Rob

Not surprising at all.

Odds are, the Red Army captured tens of thousands of those in Germany and then turned around and sold them off to the Soviet satellite states.

But the rugged AK is still superior.

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The Syrians had a lot of WWII German gear, but from the pics in the first link, these aren't. Notice the label that in the crate that says repros date 2012.

Not surprising for me either they found some in Iraq years ago.And have been seen in Somalia too.Some were confiscated in Germany also. They seemed to have gotten around. Robert

"German police officers show weapons that were confiscated during a raid near Rosenheim, southern Germany, Tuesday, Nov. 28, 2006."

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Couldn't they have been rechambered to take the AK 7.62 round?

Along with the StG 44 the MP 38/40 and STEN seem to still be around also.Robert

I love this though . Robert

I have the American Tactical/German Sport Gun 22LR knock off. It's a blast to shoot, but of course no kick to it. And the hell with the limited availability of the 7.62 kurz ammo, I had a hell of a time getting 22LR ammo last month when I bought it!

That's am MP 40 not a Sten. As to rechambering the StG why go to the reouble and cost? Besides you'd need to do major work to get the Stg to accept AK mags.

I read somewhere they were being manufactured in Syria along time ago.

"That's am MP 40 not a Sten."

I missed posting the photo I was referring to. Its just below the
MP 40 barrel and other weapon in the upper left hand side. Robert
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The Syrians got a lot of German WWII stuff postwar. They were still using some PzIV in 1967!

Not really using them. They were dug in mainly as pillboxes and great targets for the Israeli Centurions during the '65 Water War.Some of the survivors were still on the Golan Heights in the "67 War and were captured by the Israelis and turned into museum pieces. Robert

These threads have quite a bit about what Axis vehicles were used after the war and where,
Here,
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And here,

Post war use of Axis AFVs and Vehicles.
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Robert

I recall reading somewhere that Argentina tried to manufacture the StG in the 1948-1950 timeframe but didn't have much luck for some reason.
Post WWII the Czechs sold a large amount of German made snall arms to the Arabs. A lot of them ended up in Algeria and Tunisia during the early 1950s.

I believe that the East Germans used quite a few StG 44s. Especially the Border Police till at least the 70s. I have quite a few photos of them carrying them. Since East Germany was supplying some arms to Iraq perhaps some might have been passed along. Perhaps to Syria too. Robert

I have seen photos of Yugoslavia paratroops using StG 44 and some commentators thought some of the Syrian stocks came from old Yugoslavian stocks

Given the choice, I would certainly not choose an STG-44 over an AK.

The indisputable "cool factor" aside, it's just simply not as well designed a gun. The STG-44 is heavier and more cumbersome. The magazines are longer, heavier, and thus more difficult to carry in quantity than those of the AK. The metal fore end of the STG is also prone to getting very hot after you put a couple of magazines through it. (I've seen people at the range wearing a leather love on their left hand, just to be able to hold on to the gun!) The other thing that most people don't realise is that the STG-44 is actually a pretty fragile design….especially compared to the notoriously indestructable AK. That thin board stock is a weak point, and I have seen a couple of owner snap theirs off. More importantly, the stamped reciver combined with pretty tight internal tolerances is a bad combination. A fairly shallow dent to the reciver in the wrong place is likely to cause the gun to freeze up completely. Then of course there is the issue with finding ammo that others have mentioned.

But note that I said "given a choice". I suppose that if you're some Syrian rebel with limited access to working firearms any gun is better than having no gun at all! And there are many other military surplus rifles that would be a worse choice than an STG-44.

Martin

I suspect coolness trumps practicality quite a bit in irregular forces:)

Guys, nothing world shaking to offer into this conversation, but may I remind you that Yugoslavia produced their own copy of StG44 in post war years, IIRC they were issued to paratroopers till 1970-80s, and as far as I know they were then shipped to export markets – they were orginal 7.9x33 ones, so Im quite sure that at least thats one source for pro-eastern block middle eastern countries to aquire "less common" munitions till early 1990s.

>>>I love this though . Robert

The Nagant 91/30 or the German Policegirl holding it? ;-)

Martin

I recall seeing a photo of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan showing a mujahedeen proudly posing with his Stg. IIRC some even made their way into the hands of the Algerian insurgents fighting the French.

Most importantly, how do I get my hands on one?

Couldn't they have been rechambered to take the AK 7.62 round?

You'd need to rebarrel them, the StG44 uses 7.92 bullets, same as the Mauser (diameter .323"). The AK fires bullets with a nominal diameter of .310" or .311". Keyhole city if you just cut a new chamber.

Mserafin there are guys in Pakistan who can make you any gun you like complete with serial numbers,etc

"I believe that the East Germans used quite a few StG 44s. Especially the Border Police till at least the 70s."

I've heard similar. I've actually handled small cardboard boxes, as well as individual steel cased rounds of 7.92x33mm ammo, all made in 1959, at a gun show in Sydney some 25 years ago.

I can look it up, but I'd be guessing that at least one ammunition plant capable of turning that ammo out would have wound up in East Germany.

Their survival to date is probably more a testimony to how little they were actually being used, rather than the ruggedness of the design, or the availability (or not) of ammunition.

"Notice the label that in the crate that says repros date 2012."

I remember reading a while ago that, as well as the .22cal reproduction already referred to, there was a limited offer happening, or going to happen, for a semi-auto only version in the original 7.92mm. Some kind of high-end private venture……

Bingo…

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"Most importantly, how do I get my hands on one?"

There may have been changes in the rules in the US since I got my 2003 edition of Krause's "Standard Catalog of Military Firearms, The Collector's Price and Reference Guide" but, supposing someone had one to offer, and you could put up with the paperwork, you wouldn't have got much change from 5000 to 18,000 US Dollars, depending on model and condition.

I think an old copy of "Combat and Survival" (?) had an article written by someone who actually paid for the ammo to do some firing on the range. Effective, but scary noises, due to design, age, and wear and tear on an original weapon. He also made an observation on how hot the handguard got. Must have been a quite old copy of C&S, imagine trying to leagally own an MP43 in the UK now……

Couldn't say about the repros (or the paperwork).

"……and the barrel looks too short to me, leading me to wonder if these are actually StG44s."

There was a muzzle nut on some versions which protected the threads for attachment of a suppressor(silencer). If missing, the barrel might look a bit short. Especially since photos of intact weapons without the nut are seldom seen.

"2nd link the way he's holding the StG and using the sights he'd be lucky to hit the side of a barn at 10 feet ! :)"

Not to mention the way he's resting the noisy end on that wall.

As others have said, conversion from original caliber to 7.62x39mm- not worth the effort.

I imagine, for military sales/consumption, this manufacturer just packages more rounds into bigger, greener boxes:

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I seem to recall the StG44 was produced post-war by a number of nations. Would definitely explain where the old stocks came from.

Those need to be in a museum …

The first German police picture, the Mauser on the left is a Swedish 1896. Middle one I'm not sure of, front sling has me baffled. The one on the bottom is a Russian Mosin Nagant, but the stock looks like Arctic Birch, which would make it a Finn. I suspect they raided an illegal collector's house rather than terrorists.

Probably the former; agreed. Bolt-action rifles are legal in Germany (as are semi-autos), but I would suppose that a full-auto rifle would probably need to have a welded action or something like that.

Going by the caption date and description "German police officers show weapons that were confiscated during a raid near Rosenheim, southern Germany, Tuesday, Nov. 28, 2006.", it would appear to be these raids:
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PS On another forum it was suggested that the apparent StG44 from the German raids may actually be a BD44:
ssd-weapon.com/BD_44.html

"PS On another forum it was suggested that the apparent StG44 from the German raids may actually be a BD44"

They do look extremely similar. Robert