"Service dates for Sherman variants in US Service?" Topic

Can someone provide a general list of when the various variants (A1, A2, A3, A4) came into service?

Also, would different variants commonly be used in the same unit?

Thanks.

Dates of first acceptance for most variants can be found here:

link

Also, would different variants commonly be used in the same unit?

Differently armed variants were found in the same unit but generally speaking the aim was to keep automotive standardisation within units – but as with all things Sherman there were exceptions.

Not sure if you are interested in a specific period of the war but this might help:
TMP link

In US service the M4 and M4A1 were frequently in the same units. The M4A3 in their own units. This is one of the reasons why it was not necessary to develop an M4A1/105. Here units mean either Armored Divisions or Independent Tank Battalions.

But Hornswoggler is absolutely right, as in all things Sherman there are exceptions.

On a related note, would there be mixed units in British service?

Yes – have a look at the link below-but they broadly tried to keep the same types together. Only some of the Sherman marks (initially the MkV and later the Mk I & Mk I hybrid)were suitable for conversion to Fireflies so these were usually mixed in with other types- Mk IIs, MkIIIs and MkVs.

link

Combat replacements muddled things up in both US & British Armies. Lots of US units equipped with M4/M4A1 received M4A3 as replacements and had to make do. Even worse, the British released nearly 300 Shermans to Patton's III Army in 1945, so they then also had M4A2 and M4A4 mixed in.

The British tried to group types by brigade, but as with the US Army, things got seriously mixed up as replacements and new types were received.

In NW Europe the Armoured Divisions were all initially equipped with Sherman V (M4A4) (except for 7th Armoured Division, which had a mixture of Cromwell and Firefly). The independent Armoured Brigades generally had Sherman III (M4A2), though 4th Armoured Brigade had Sherman II (M4A1) and the three D-Day Armoured Brigades (8th, 27th & 2nd Canadian) also contained quantities of Sherman II DD or V DD. To mess things up further, all brigades received Sherman Vc Firefly, which were eventually distrubted at a rate of one per troop (very occasionally rising to two per troop during operational lulls).

As time went on, replacements appeared in all types, including the new Sherman I Hybrid. The majority type would normally stay the same, but there would be a light smattering of other types. Sherman Ic Hybrid Fireflies also began appearing among the replacements.

The 1st Polish Armoured Division eventually went over to Sherman IIa (M4A1 76 W), but managed to retain some Fireflies and 75mm tanks.

In Italy things were even more mental. As in NW Europe, types were generally grouped by brigade, though could receive other types as replacements. Everything went to pot during the summer of 1944, as Sherman Ib (M4 105) started to be delivered to all Sherman squadrons at a rate of two per SHQ.

Then Sherman IIa began to appear in the Italy Armoured Divisions – initially roughly one tank per troop was a IIa, then two tanks per troop and by 1945 some regiments were almost completely Sherman IIa.

Ic Hybrid and Vc Fireflies began to appear in Italy in October/November 1944, going first to 5th Canadian Armoured Division, which unlike the British and South African Armoured Divisions, had not received any Sherman IIa. Fireflies then began to cascade to the independent British & New Zealand Armoured Brigades and the 2nd Polish Armoured Brigade last of all, with at least one of the British Armoured Brigades (7th) by 1945 having a three-way split of 75mm, 76mm & 17pdr in each troop PLUS the two 105mm tanks in each SHQ!

To confuse things even further, at least one regiment in 9th Armoured Brigade also received Sherman V DDs.

In Burma there was a modicum of sanity – all four Sherman regiments in that theatre were 100% Sherman V.

That's more than I could've hoped for, thanks very much!

I can just about get away with my single platoon of Sherman IIs in among the Vs in that case.

Sherman's I think have been very misunderstood . We all seem to care about having the correct type of Panzer 4 but not so much having the correct Sherman.

Many thanks to Mark for filling me/us in on the British use of the Sherman . I have at least learnt something here :)

"We all seem to care about having the correct type of Panzer 4 but not so much having the correct Sherman."

Very true, all I actually care about is gun size on the model (75, 76, 17pdr or 105). As for the rest, well, they are Shermans:)

I think with Panzer IVs it's easier to get the correct model, as they were around for a lot longer, and the different models were introduced and withdrawn in a chronological order. (In theory at least)
Whereas with the Shermans the various different models were being produced and put into service at the same time.

Although that's probably a somewhat false impression as German tanks tended to get a lot more 'hand finishing' than the products of a true production line. There's also a huge blurry zone over the Pz IV F2/G/H where different detail combinations of eg cupola hatches were to be found, making it more or less impossible to neatly categorise some tanks into a particular 'ausf' version.

There's a world of difference in appearance between an early M4AI & a late M4A3, every bit as much as those between a PzIVA & IVJ. However, panzers get all the attention……..

I must admit that I'm with Martin on this… 'Back in the day' and before I knew better, the only Shermans I could find in 15mm were Sherman II (from Skytrex/Old Glory). So I did Guards Armoured Div all with Sherman II! The Fireflies were uber-wrong, as they were Sherman II hulls (the IIc Firefly didn't exist – thanks Skytrex).

I cringe whenever I see them and I rarely bring them out in public… :o(

Yeah, I've kitbashed a IIc from PSC components, only to find out it never actually existed.
At some point I may make a Hybrid instead.

I'm the "gun right" type too, but also with Germans. Three kinds of Pz IV (short 75, IVf2 with the one-hole muzzle break, long 75), 4 Pz III (37mm, short and long 50 and short 75). A Sherman is either 75, 76, 17lb or 105. Oh, and jumbo shermans. And easy eights. And Calliopes, and mine sweepers…