| jameshammyhamilton | 27 Nov 2011 4:12 p.m. PST |
Not being an expert on all things M4 and now having plenty of options as to which versions I can buy on the cheap (well from PSC), if I want to add an armoured company to my existing US Armoured rifle company then which version of Sherman should I go for? I would like at least one platoon of 75s plus HQ and 1 platoon of 76s. I see all the different versions and then my google foo fails me and I am left thinking that someone must know this stuff so figured I should ask here. Help ….. |
 Doms Decals  | 27 Nov 2011 4:29 p.m. PST |
You want the two M4A1 boxes – the M4A2 was avoided by the US Army, cos they didn't like diesel. For a bit of a sample of what they had in NW Europe, you can do worse than this: link |
| Hornswoggler | 27 Nov 2011 7:51 p.m. PST |
See also the other recent thread 'sherman mixing'… US Medium Tank Coy had a Coy HQ and 3 platoons each of 5 tanks. It is my understanding that for a "mixed" coy (ie 75's and 76's) it was more common for there to be a mix within each platoon rather than whole platoons of 76's. So for the period you are interested in your platoons should each have 5 tanks, with 1-3 of these being M4A3(76)W amd the remainder being M4A3(75)W. Coy HQ is either 2 x M4A3(75)W or 2 x M4A3(76)W. Optionally also add to HQ a close support tank, either an M4(105) or an M4A3(105). |
| jowady | 27 Nov 2011 11:38 p.m. PST |
It depends on when you want it for. Normandy, just before Cobra, M4A1s, mix of 75&76, 75s should be "dry" hulls (easiest way to tell is side applique armor and small driver hatches.) You can also have some M4 "dry" hulled 75mm Shermans. Prior to Cobra M4s and M4A1s were used exclusively because they used the same engine and that eased the strain on the logistical chain. Post Cobra the M4A3s came into play, all "wet" hulls. In September 1944 the M4A3E2 Jumbo started to appear as well. It was a very heavily armored version, very rare (around 250 were made), they were issued sparingly, but some Jumbos survived multiple hits from 88s and kept on going. They had the 75 but after the Bulge many were re-armed with spare 76mm guns. Very late in the Bulge M4A3E8s (76mm with the later HVSS suspension and wider track) came into service, along with a few M4A3 75mm "dry" hulls. The latter were tanks used in the US for training, refurbished and sent into combat. |
| Hornswoggler | 28 Nov 2011 12:11 a.m. PST |
See how quick things start to get complicated when you talk about the good old Sherman ! As jowady said, the first 76's ie M4A1(76)W which appeared just after the Normandy landings had the same radial engine as previous M4A1 models so you wouldn't find them mixed with M4A3 models. The M4A3(76)W was introduced not long after and would only be found in all M4A3 equipped units. Also bear in mind that the Jumbos were initially issued to independent tank battalions, with the armoured divisions only getting their hands on a few later on. |
| Doms Decals | 28 Nov 2011 3:53 a.m. PST |
I stand by my answer on the grounds that only the M4A1 and M4A2 are currently available in plastic, hence ignoring the rest…. |
| Hornswoggler | 28 Nov 2011 4:36 a.m. PST |
Yes, not so much available yet in 15mm plastic. In 1/72 'fast-build' plastic, Armourfast do 75mm, 76mm and 105mm variants of the M4A3 and Italeri do the 75mm and the Jumbo. link |
| Garand | 28 Nov 2011 8:06 a.m. PST |
If you start throwing in Sherman 105s, only the M4 and M4A3 had the 105mm in US service. The M4 105s also had the wet stowage hull. AFAIK there were no M4A1 105s (the M4 filled this slot, having the important parts the same as the M4A1). Damon. |
| donlowry | 28 Nov 2011 11:17 a.m. PST |
Yes, not so much available yet in 15mm plastic. He never mentioned a scale. Just about all those are available in 20mm. |
| jameshammyhamilton | 28 Nov 2011 11:47 a.m. PST |
Hmm, not simple then :( 15mm plastic is probably where I want to go although the rest of my troops are all Command Decision so I may go with getting more of them. I really must check which version the Shermans I already have are. |
| Garand | 28 Nov 2011 5:57 p.m. PST |
I'm sure if you wait around enough, all of the appropriate variants will be out in time… Really, if all you're looking for is a little armored support, Dom's suggestion is perfectly fine. It's what I'm doing when Shermans show up in my queue again… Damon. |
| Hornswoggler | 28 Nov 2011 6:26 p.m. PST |
"If you start throwing in Sherman 105s, only the M4 and M4A3 had the 105mm in US service. The M4 105s also had the wet stowage hull. AFAIK there were no M4A1 105s (the M4 filled this slot, having the important parts the same as the M4A1)." Yes, only M4 and M4A3 105's. Also note that although the M4 105's were built on late hulls (ie 47 degree glacis plate), the 'wet' ammunition stowage was replaced by armoured bins. "He never mentioned a scale. Just about all those are available in 20mm." Actually 15mm was implied in the original question tho I suppose PSC will get round to rolling out Shermans in 1/72. |
| jameshammyhamilton | 29 Nov 2011 4:40 p.m. PST |
OK then so if I want to be correct for Cobra and breakout period Americans I should be using M4A1(W) 76s, M4 or M4A1 or M4A1(W) 75s and M4 105s. Is that about right? Also what is the difference between an M4 and an M4A1? *EDIT* OK, a quick check of the Skytrex pictures reveals that the M4 was welded and the M4A1 cast so a big difference there. The M4 and M4A2 look very close. Would it be total heresy to use M4A2s for the 105s? |
| number4 | 29 Nov 2011 7:25 p.m. PST |
Would it be total heresy to use M4A2s for the 105s? Depends on your personal comfort zone. If you put enough external stowage on the engine deck etc. the difference should be unnoticeable link |
| Hornswoggler | 29 Nov 2011 8:13 p.m. PST |
"Would it be total heresy to use M4A2s for the 105s?" Yes – expect a visit from the Sherman Inquisition !!!!! :oP |
opens a box of dirt roads with shellholes and tread marks on them.
