"Making a 15mm scifi range questions..." Topic

Ok, newbie here so be easy my first time please folks…
So, after an absence of 8 or so years I am back wargaming/painting etc. Tried loads of new stuff, but have gravitated back to 15mm (My preferred scale) and scifi.
Theres loads more choice and stuff is more available with the internet than before. But still a lack of decent power armoured troops, aliens and alien vehicles, civvies and normals. As much as I like converting and searching for ideal models and making stuff, I really don't have as much time as Id like to.
My idea is to get some 15mm scale sculpts done from my concept ideas and sketches, and get them cast up, then use them/sell them, then use any profits I might make to get further models added to my line. Im not too bothered if it doesnt make much cash, Id get a sense of satisfaction knowing that my ideas were made flesh, and will be fighting some future war etc on someones table somewhere in the world…
Ok round to reality, realistically I need to get some idea of how much an average 15mm figure sculpt would cost me from my concept work (GBP please or equivelent as im in the UK)and then how much will it cost to cast up and have models produced in a limited run (maybe 100 – 200 at first, later who knows)
Id love to sculpt them myself, but my skills are limited to larger stuff (I have tried to get that small, but no luck and I would like to have someone with better 15mm size skills so my ideas translate to the design. Any ideas or suggestions? I add that its only an idea at the moment, I aint even got any real concept sketches done to illustrate, its what youd call "theoretical", as the cost of production may be out of my price range, but Id like some rough idea if its possible.
Help me obi wan kenobi….

Define "decent power armor". The term seems to have as many definitions as it has definers.

Help me obi wan kenobi….

Well, sounds like you can quote the true good movies at least so it's a good start! :D

What i suppose I meant was " a wider choice" or power armour troops, maybe some alien power suits, or Junker types, orky tin plate power armour (knocked together recycled) or any new take on the power armour theme.

You could back into a price by looking at what's out there and getting an idea about price per figure. That price is cost plus profit. Most business folks look for a profit margin of about 15-50% for each item sold.

As a consumer I balk at paying more than say .50 to .80 cents per sculpt in 15mm. The more I pay then the better the sculpt. The above percentage plus the $$ above should be a pretty fair guide for what to shoot for. Selling at cost simply gives you your money back and the fewer you make then the more you have to charge per sculpt.

You might want to troll some of the 15mm threads and look for Khurasan and QRF. Both of these guys have given some insights into how they create and sell miniatures and I seem to remember Khurasan Jon mentioning in a thread about his exterminator models about how much a standard miniature run costs him and some tid bits about his pricing.

Good luck and keep us posted!

You could back into a price by looking at what's out there and getting an idea about price per figure. That price is cost plus profit. Most business folks look for a profit margin of about 15-50% for each item sold.

As a consumer I balk at paying more than say .50 to .80 cents per sculpt in 15mm. The more I pay then the better the sculpt. The above percentage plus the $$ above should be a pretty fair guide for what to shoot for. Selling at cost simply gives you your money back and the fewer you make then the more you have to charge per sculpt.

You might want to troll some of the 15mm threads and look for Khurasan and QRF. Both of these guys have given some insights into how they create and sell miniatures and I seem to remember Khurasan Jon mentioning in a thread about his exterminator models about how much a standard miniature run costs him and so tid bits about his pricing.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Still pertinent:

TMP link

you had be sold on the words "Junker" and "orky". I dont know much about the bussiness of doing it, but if you made that I would defiatly be interested in buying when it was avaible.

We could use a nice set, of futuristically clothed (think comfortable, jogging-suit style clothing, like is seen on UFO, Space 1999, or Star Trek), starship, or spaceship crew figures, in standing, seated, and combat poses.

About the only ones that come close are the Trek figures, which are all in standing poses, and some figures with hand weapons.

A customer recently praised my scientist pack and told me we need more poses. I think that's a common observation. I explained that the set of 4 had cost me about £340.00 GBP to have made, and after metal costs I clear about £1.00 GBP on each pack. That means I have to sell 340 packs before I see a penny profit, and if I sell less than 340 packs, I will be in the red on them forever.

Issue is that people tend not to field armies of scientists. The scientists are popular -- virtually every order I get includes them! But it's usually one pack. OTOH we have the exterminators, who sell like hot cakes and the gamer will usually buy 2-4 packs. The exterminators have paid for themselves already.

careful what you ask for my friend. Khurasan hits it on the head. I do almost all the work myself and still dont clear all that much. Now develop your concept art and go kick starter. many people will ask you to do some special styles or poses and say they will buy when they hit. but in actuality your idea and theirs of the subject don't always match up so the sale wont happen. Now if you want to do this for yourself and stay true to your line then go for it and do it in reasonably consumer friendly batches. By this I mean do a full line of one type or faction instead of peacemealing in support/ command/ hvy wpns on 3 or 4 different factions.

I was recently told if you are not (as a manufacturer) marking items at 6X cost of cast then you will never be able to make it to distribution as it requires a 60% so they can give top retailers a 50%.

I am nowhere near that myself and cant even offer a discount to retailers on all items.

I think 15mm is priced low when compared to 28mm -- 1 28mm of mine weighs as much as 3 15mm figures yet I could not sell 3 15mm figures for 5.99 but have no problems selling the 28mm figure. Even at 3.99 like a reaper figure no one would by 3 15mm figs.

Most of us under value our time greatly --

many thanks you guys, your advice is much appreciated and recieved.
Thanks to extra crispy, I will keep all that info in mind (ill pencil in the $ until I get some real quotes from various parties) with what youve said its a doo-able price structure that I can just about afford (hopefully!)
Tgunner-Id like to keep the costs to the consumer down and as long as I get some money back for my efforts I'd be happy, not really bothered too much about profit (although it would be nice, who doesnt like money!) My reward of being able to do it again with another range and not as much to pay out for them would be great! as well as to see people using them would be fantastic!
Victor/mako11- I would like to make allsorts of stuff, although I am just in brainstorming mode at the moment so no fixed ideas as yet, but I will keep all your comments in mind when designing my concept work.
khurasanminiatures/combat wombat-I will keep all that in mind, nothing too specialist or out of the ordinary or there might be no takers for the figures, I will try any gleen any ideas from anyone who says "Id buy it if you did this…" but I'll try and satisfy my own creativity before that. Ive looked at indiegogo as kickstarter is a no go for me as in the UK, if I do need a boost to fund it (rather than pay myself) I might be tempted as an option. I would like to say Im going to stay true to my initial concepts and design, hopefully It will all translate well and work out (fingers crossed)
Many thanks again for your words and encouragement, please feel free to give me any pearls of wisdom, ideas and suggestions and with any luck I can do something that people will like!

Jason Moore- I would like to think I could keep my figure prices as low as possible to start with, and any sales I get hopefully would be from hobby retailers in my district and online private sales. I must admit, its more for me to see if I can do it rather than purely profits, if its not for me and I get no one interested, I won't do it again (The work can go in my portfolio as sometthing I have done and I'll go and do some other projects). Theres loads of choice with 28mm scifi and not so much 15mm scifi so I give full kudos to you independent mini manufacturers that keep at it producing great stuff for us. I understand the scale issues thing, I just hope the renewed interest in 15mm goes on and on, it is my fave scale for wargames and I'd like to think I'd be helping add to the scifi pool of figure choices for peoples games.

I tend to think there's more choice with 15 mm sci-fi than 28 mm. Especially when it comes to aliens and vehicles.
Cool thing with 15 mm is you can try to make something else and sometimes even original without losing the house.

I've never sculpted or ever produced one miniature, but I've seen many start-ups come and go over the last 9 or so years that I've been trolling TMP. I would think that pitfall #1 is listening to "if you made X I would buy tons of them". The reality is that 6 people on TMP don't constitute your buying public and all the promises of "if you only made" never materialize.
Long story short, raise the bar on things you think people will actually purchase, not niche items that a few people scream for but don't ever buy.

Regards.

Probably true, but with the upcoming release of Traveller T5, I imagine the market for unique, and well-sculpted Sci-Fi figures will only increase in strength.

In addition, more people may move to 15mm/18mm, as the costs of the larger figures increase too, in the future.

The trick is to find something you would like to produce, that someone can sculpt for you, for a reasonable price, and that isn't already well represented in the marketplace.

There are a lot of options for combat troops, currently on the market, but as I mentioned, futuristic-looking spaceship crewmen and women are lacking. No one has done a range of figures that have poses in sitting/working at a desk/control station; standing/walking/talking with others; and in combat stances, with weapons. I think that would be unique, and would sell well. Obviously though, that ups the cost, since you'd need 3+ poses of each figure, and assuming 2 male and 2 females, and total of 12 figures.

On the plus side, some portion of the figures could be reused, and/or modified, so the costs for the additional poses should be considerably less, e.g. you've already got the heads, torsoes, and basic arms, and legs done, so you just need to modify the latter two. Adding a few, separate heads that are different (change to hair, addition of a cap, or beret, helmet, etc.), and/or perhaps one moveable arm with a variety of weapons would permit you to greatly expand on the range, again for minimal additional cost. Buyers would like that as well, since then their troops don't all look like clones of one another.

I also agree that we could use some nice civilians, aliens, alien creatures (animals), etc.

With the pending re-release of Traveller T5, and the recent release of The Department rules, I imagine a lot of people will be looking for more, unique sculpts for their gaming needs.

As the guy who was chasing the extra scientist, I agree with Mako 11. Need more 'crew' types and civilians. Some armed some with various bits of kit.

There are SO many armed military types out there, but few for 'low level' engagements. I'm using a lot of PeterPig stuff for mine at the moment.

Also agree with Mako on the variations options, side caps, peak caps etc can make a range really expand without too much extra sculpting.

Also a full set of alien crew would be good. Say 3-5 sculpts of captain, engnr',pilot etc.

Jon, Thanks for the reply, I'm plotting more scientists already.

I would love to have some "orky" power armor to go along with my GZG alien mercs.

Kyn ell'

Drop me an email on my blog or pm me

armiesarmy.blogspot.co.uk

Ive started my own range for the exact same reasons as you and same expectations. Lots of great people here whom can help, however Ive learned a few lessons the hard way and Ive some things I would do again differently! Ive a second line coming out in the near future and I'm going to make sure I follow my own advice!

Drop us a bell and Ill pass them on. May prove useful:)

AA

Keith

I'd like to see some bare-headed figures, for the ship's crew, and/or civilians.

I can see where some more scientists, which could double as medical personnel, would be useful, e.g. in both standing, and sitting poses (male and female), rather than just fleeing as well. They'd go well with the medical bay equipment that was just released on Shapeways, and/or with some of those home-made, or professional liquid specimen tanks that are large enough to take a human, or alien.

Add in a person or two, lying flat, for the floor, or tables, so they have someone to look after also. Obviously, these could double as casualties/dead as well.

Couldn't agree more Mako.

Alien Terrain …

Beware making Orky Power armor too GamesWorkshopy, because You will meet with "cease and desist letters". Ask The Scene guys.

And good luck!

You could just make Porky Power Armor instead.

Not really sure what the differences would be, but imagine you shouldn't have any issues if you make them a bit different.

I was kinda thinking on a range of alien powersuits at the moment, maybe one sculpt per race (about 5 different) then you could essentially have 5 different units for games. Still in development sketches (Ive got a few of them done with ideas for the other 2) Safe to say the junker/orky type will be quite different to GW, so no worries there.
I reckon any civvies will have to wait to see if my ideas can become reality (I have some great ideas for them too, but like the alien power armour sounds better for me to get designing some monsters)
Armies Army- Ill drop you a message as soon as I get a bit of quiet time, theres a few things id like to ask you about so I wouldnt mind composing a few things without unwell/tired toddlers kicking off and crying all round me!
If people do want stuff like alien terrain bits, I could try and make a few bits with resin and stone plaster? I do have experience in casting those and might be able to do a decent sculpt of wierd alien plants/caves/craters/etc (may do something if I ever get any time free!)

Sounds good

AA