 John the OFM  | 19 Apr 2012 9:01 a.m. PST |
vexman.net/13stars And, almost ALL of them are controversial! 
Few are available commercially, so we can bring back the lost art of hand painting your own flags. |
 Der Alte Fritz | 19 Apr 2012 10:06 a.m. PST |
for those of us who have this site blocked at work, can you describe what is found on your link? |
| John the OFM | 19 Apr 2012 10:22 a.m. PST |
It's a survey of a LOT of period illustrations of "stars and stripes".
Some paintings, some crude sketches by army officers, some powder horn engravings, etc.
Many can be dated to pre-1785. Some, not so much. |
| Der Alte Fritz | 19 Apr 2012 11:43 a.m. PST |
Thankee!  |
| Ironwolf | 19 Apr 2012 12:21 p.m. PST |
John, your on a rampage today with the kewl links. lol
Thanky |
| 95thRegt | 19 Apr 2012 3:16 p.m. PST |
Notice ALMOST all are installation,or stationary flags?? And Naval flags. There are almost NO instances of it ever being carried in battle BEFORE the Mexican-American War.
Yet manufactures still produce them,and wargamers still use them… SMH… Bob |
| Thomas Mante | 19 Apr 2012 3:34 p.m. PST |
How about some images of Gostelowe flags? link There is also a pile of other stuff on the srcalifornia website and at least it is not warflag! |
| 95thRegt | 22 Apr 2012 12:24 p.m. PST |
at least it is not warflag!
>>
A good case of Syphilis is better than Warflag! LOL Bob |
| cavcrazy | 22 Apr 2012 8:02 p.m. PST |
If there are almost "NO" instances of it being carrried into battle, then there is a possibility that it was…..and really now has there ever been a "good" case of Syphilis?…..It's not like your doctor will ever say "Hey good news, It's Syphilis!"……Well unless the altenative is the Ebola virus, but I don't think it originates in quite the same way as Syphilis………Just sayin'. |
| Old Contemptibles | 23 Apr 2012 8:18 a.m. PST |
For those of you who do not use Betsy Ross flags or any stars and stripes flags, what flag if any do you use for your Continental regiments? |
| John the OFM | 23 Apr 2012 9:21 a.m. PST |
Rallynow, as 95th Regt never tires of telling us, Patriot regiments in the AWI did NOT use so-called "national flags".
Instead, they used "regimental" flags. These very rarely used any stars and stripes.
they could be "protest flags", they could be pine tree flags, they could be allegorical, drippingwith Masonic symbolism, etc. For examples of Patriot regimental flags, go to these:
TMP link
link
Google:
Gostelowe flags
Tarleton flags
Check out some of the threads on the American Revolution board. But, we all love our Betsy Ross flags. If in the past you have issued them to the troops, and they have fought well, it would be blasphemous to take their colors away! |
| epturner | 23 Apr 2012 1:19 p.m. PST |
John;
I could always make one for you with a Turkey on it. That way you can always give the Crown Forces, "The Bird". Eric |
| 95thRegt | 23 Apr 2012 5:44 p.m. PST |
as 95th Regt never tires of telling us, Patriot regiments in the AWI did NOT use so-called "national flags" >>EVERY chance I get till I wipe CLEAN the vaster wargame wasteland of this VERY incorrect use of a symbol that was NOT carried in the field during our Revolution!! But, we all love our Betsy Ross flags. If in the past you have issued them to the troops, and they have fought well, it would be blasphemous to take their colors away!
>>>
Then I'm a blasphemer!! LOL!
How coma I knew,as a kid during the Bicentennial even,that this flag was never carried in battle?? Through the years it just got reinforced. Sorry, rant over! lol! I use the Gostleowe colors,and variations thereof. Right now I have mostly a British force,but my lone Continentals carry a couple Gostleowes,and/or the associated grand div. colors. Bob |
| Bill N | 24 Apr 2012 9:06 a.m. PST |
Rallynow-My advice would be that if you cannot find an actual flag for your unit, just pick one you like and use it. You've got some options including the Gostelowe flags already mentioned, the Grand Union (early war), the Pine Tree and the Gadsden flag as well as a number of flags for specific units. I'd also suggest it would be acceptable for a unit to have no flag at all. If you want to use some varient on the Betsy Ross flag, fine. There is no evidence that the flag was ever issued to troops, but there is plenty of evidence indicating that the flag was "around" during or right after the war. That would make it hard to say it wasn't carried by some unit, at least informally. What I would advise against though is using the stars and stripes as if it was some sort of national flag rather than simply another regimental colour. |
| Old Contemptibles | 24 Apr 2012 3:38 p.m. PST |
I am not sure the Betsy Ross flag ever existed. She did some flags for a state navy. I have no idea what those looked like. I do use the Gostelowe flags sometimes paired with a BR flag. No one I game with or anyone at conventions ever complains about it. But when I can find the correct flag that is the one I use. As with everything it depends. |
| 95thRegt | 24 Apr 2012 4:51 p.m. PST |
I am not sure the Betsy Ross flag ever existed.
>>
Hmmm! So why do wargamers use it???????? Hell,the Betsy Ross flag isn't even mentioned in the Richardson flag book! THE reference on AWI flags.. Bob |
| John the OFM | 24 Apr 2012 6:04 p.m. PST |
Hmmm! So why do wargamers use it???????? Myth and legend. It is instantly identifiable as "Teh 1st American flag." Besides, if it were not GENUINE, would Mel Gibson have used it in The Patriot? |
| Clays Russians | 25 Apr 2012 6:22 a.m. PST |
I HATE THAT FILM………..IT IS PURE FROG S*IT, I was forced to watch that drivel on a plane going to Afghanistan (via Kurgistan) and we had some RAF on board with us too. Not the smartest thing our commander did. |
| 95thRegt | 25 Apr 2012 6:21 p.m. PST |
Myth and legend.
It is instantly identifiable as "Teh 1st American flag."
>>
Then use it for your orcs and middle earth characters and leave it out of HISTORICAL wargaming! And please don't mention that sorry excuse for a movie ever again! Ugh! Bob |
| epturner | 26 Apr 2012 4:39 a.m. PST |
Much like one cannot mention "The Scottish Play", perhaps as gamers we could call it "The Gibson Film" to prevent us from speaking it's name in public… It was Mel-odramatic. (ba-dum-DA!) Thankyou, thankyou, be sure to tip your waitresses. Eric |
| Der Alte Fritz | 27 Apr 2012 11:54 a.m. PST |
Somehow it just doesn't seem to look like an American Revolution wargame unless there are a couple of Stars & Stripes flags on several units. This instantly identifies the period to the casual observer and is probably the reason why you see them in wargames. My first couple of American regiments that I painted were flagged with the "Congressional Flag" (stars in a square pattern on a blue field, instead of a circle/red and white stripes), but after getting harangued by 95th Regiment , all regiments thereafter received a different non-starsnstripey flag. On the otherhand, if being very EXACT in one's historical presentation of units and their flags is a prerequisite for gaming the period, then one is doomed to failure. I mean, flagging everything with Gostelowe flags would also be un-historical since their is no proof that they were ever carried into battle and they certainly can not be attributed to certain regiments. Any other flag, aside from the few exceptions in the Richardson book, are pure speculation as well. That kind of limits the field in one's choice of flags, doesn't it? |
