"15mm Near Future Tracked IFV" Topic

With all the super cool 15mm Sci-fi stuff that a typical TMPer gets bombarded with I'll admit it's hard to resist.

Some days I'm on the verge of heading over to a few websites and just ordering it all.

I'll be honest, one niche that keeps me hanging back is a tracked, near future, mechanized infantry fighting vehicle.

The Khurasan Yozhik did wow me and if I found a "Western" counterpart I guess my wallet would be doomed.

I am aware of the what is out there from Old Crow, GZG, Combat wombat, and Rebel (very close).

I'll explain my sense of aesthetics…

I think the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, BMP, Swedish CV90 and Warrior are some of the coolest looking combat vehicles ever. I guess those vehicles would border on the "light tanks that also carry troops" concept.

I can't wait to see how the US Army GCV will look like.

Any future products that may kick me over the edge?

Thanks

Yeah, thats a really cool bit of kit, would be nice in 15mm.

My problem with that pictured AFV is the shot trap that is formed when the turret is turned.

And to be honest IMHO there are going to be fewer tracked AFVs in the near future. Wheels are just so much more efficient for patrolling urban areas.

Yeah….plus that looks like a mighty high profile with mostly flat sides…. Maybe for an alien race? But nothing humans in their right mind would put into production.

Louie N, does it have to be tracked? Because we've got an APC being cast now that you may like:

And to be honest IMHO there are going to be fewer tracked AFVs in the near future. Wheels are just so much more efficient for patrolling urban areas.

Assumes that the urban area in question isn't choked with rubble, burnt-out wrecks, and potholes from hell. A city that's been fought over in an unrestrained fashion is no place for wheelies – although tracks weren't much safer in Staligrad, just more mobile. Infantry are kings of that jungle.

Khurasan- I don't really use vehicles, but that one is awesome!

Center tank,

Noel

SpaceJacker, we also have a light utility truck (think HMMWV) in the same general design type in development, being designed now. I wonder if it makes sense to have an extreme terrain version of the APC designed too, with treads?

These will be vehicles in the Federal Army range, supplementing the Atlas Armoured Transport.

I rather like it, even with the shot traps. :)

Yeah….plus that looks like a mighty high profile with mostly flat sides…. Maybe for an alien race? But nothing humans in their right mind would put into production.

Yes, you're right, no sane human would ever ride into combat in something with a high profile and mostly flat sides.

Clearly an alien design.

Keep in mind that 'high, flat sides' are a design compromise:
– Easier to transport
– better compatibility with existing roads

A rounded 'mushroom' shaped vehicle may be great from a bullet deflection and stealth perpective, but something 40 feet wide is going to be hard to put in a C-17 or drive down a narrow street.

On the other hand, if you've got huge contra-gravity transports, moving the IFV's around may not be a big issue.

Then again, if you've got contra-gravity, it's questionable you would even need tracked or wheeled IFVs.

Keep in mind that 'high, flat sides' are a design compromise

Of course. None of the infantry carrier designs I showed were thrown together without thought. No vehicle can be designed that is perfect at everything.

models like that one(from khurasanminiatures)are the reason i got gruntz. can't wait for them to be released. i need 3.and get making that "hind" gunship. i need 3 of those, too!

I still think the wave of the future is a mix of IED proof wheeled vehicles with Active Protection against RPGs and heavy APCs like the Namer that shares a tank hull with your MBT. A remote turret with several ATGM, MG or GL works just as good as what you have on most IFVs now, without taking up space that could be used to carry more infantry.

porfirio rubirosa: I always thought that there was something off with those infantry types. Sooooo, either they are indeed crazy or… I wonder…

Please excuse me a moment of thread hijacking…

Jon, a light utility vehicle with the same design elements as the Exterminator APC? Sweet.

I wish I could find a clear image of the Fast Attack Vehicle used by the Colonial Marines in the series by the same name from Dark Horse comics.

It was pretty much a turret on wheels each with independent suspension. That descriptions doesn't due it justice but it was cool.

Only pictures I can find is this

A model builder who seemed to specialize in scratchbuilt 1/35 Alien Marines stuff named Peter Sinnot has done a model of his own version, but alas his stuff seems to have disappeared from the web except for a few articles on Starshipmodeler.

-Eli

Key Khurasan,

That is awesome vehicle. But I will admit between you (Khurasan), Old Crow, Combat Wombat, Rebel, and Ground Zero games all of you have done an incredible job producing wheeled APCs. If fact there is a excess of awesomeness.

But I am still a heavy mechanized forces, kid of the cold war guy.

I was once told it never hurts to ask.

So can I please have (all in gest/joking) a big, tall, well armored, well armed (Big turret with 40mm cannon and ATGM), and with some troop capacity (6-7).

A Bradley/BMP 3 with a re-imaged near future look.

=)

Keep in mind that 'high, flat sides' are a design compromise:
– Easier to transport
– better compatibility with existing roads

Also, the more you slope the armor on a vehicle the less useable volume you wind up with – and the troops you're carrying have to fit in that volume with all their gear. Vertical or near-vertical sides on APCs are pretty common, and that's one of the reasons why.

I can't wait to see how the US Army GCV will look like.

The concept pictured looks like a great model right there!

-Will

Yes, agreed, I believe it's a US Army concept image of their GCV. Looks quite futuristic.

I wonder to what extent Western weapons are now being designed to appeal to the videogame-playing lads who are joining up?

I've been putting a lot of thought into what the next big breakthrough could be for AFVs. Think about how slopped armor and then reactive armor changed the profile and style of tanks.

Lets say we get amazing plasma/laser weapons. Those types of weapons would generate a ton of heat. I imagine a heatsink clad tank could look cool. If you designed it to work in a layered anti-tank defense as well as some sort of anti-RPG grating.

It would also be interesting to see how space travel itself will shape the next vehicles just like the C-17 and other air transports do today.

Here's a Chinese prototype amphib that I drew up in Sketchup:

It's about $10 on Shapeways, but I haven't yet ordered a test copy to see how the detail turned out, so caveat emptor!

link

I'm calling it the "Type 108" because the TMP thread that spurred it started on October 8th. Amazingly original, I know.

TMP link

Get a test copy Javelin98 I am very interested in the 108.

The closest current example of a sci-fi Bradley is Combat Wombat's Chariot IFV. The turret's a bit smaller, but it has similar armament, troop capacity, thick armor, and is truly a heavy beast. Once I order some of CW's turned barrels I'll actually get the rest of the bloody things painted.

Javelin, that's the best one you've done yet. You should see if somebody wants to pick up the model.

-Eli

Thanks, Eli! I might ping Scotty about it and see if he's interested.

Dragon Gunner, I'm planning on ordering two -- one in the "White Strong Flexible" plastic, which is fairly affordable, and one in "Frosted Ultra Detail", which is more expensive but should have much better detail. I'll post some pics once they arrive.

Now I'm doubly gutted about shapeways new (outrageous) shipping prices for non EU and US citizens! First it was Arun's ships and now this! Grr!

Back on topic, some possible developments I could foresee:

Multiple exits: armored hatches on the top, sides, and a rear ramp, allowing the dismounts to exit in whatever direction is operationally necessary.

Modular weapons systems: similar to the loadout concept on the MG Defender, a future IFV could have a "hard point" for a turret that would provide a base for various interchangable options, such as an Avenger-style AA cupola, an automatic mortar system, a LIC package with multiple light machine guns and grenade launchers, a tank-killer option mounting multiple ATGMs, or a general package of a 25mm autocannon, two LMGs, and paired TOWs in a turret.

Those arms packages would be field swappable but would inevitably involve using a boom, so a second idea would to have a base turret that could be fitted with weapons modules. Those modules would be self-contained (ammo built in), would be "plug and play" to work with a central onboard fire control computer, and would mostly be able to be swapped without using heavy equipment. Packages would include:

* M2 .50 cal MG
* 7-shot Hydra-70 2.75" rocket pod
* ATGM (TOW, Javelin, Hellfire, etc.)
* 4-shot Stinger AA missile pod (as on the Avenger)
* M240 7.62mm LMG
* 7.62mm Minigun
* Mk. 19 AGL
* Automated 60mm mortar
* FASCAM-compatible mine-dispensing system
* Anti-mine ground-penetrating radar and .50 cal package
* Future non-lethal weapon (pain beam, beanbag launcher, or whatever they're working on now)

Wheel/track hybrid drive: Some current military trailers and civilan vehicles have rubber, single-piece tracks that actually loop around standard tires instead of metal roadwheels. Taking that concept a bit further, an AFV could have auxiliary drive sprockets located forward of the forwardmost wheels (or even on the same axle as those) which would engage when the track was put on and the IFV was put into tracked mode.

Even if wheel/track hybrids are not practical from a real world POV, they certainly do present an awesome alternative for scifi models.

I've seen scifi designs that arm ground vehicles like we arm jets. There is still some central weapon, in most cases, but secondary stores are added on hardpoints.

-Eli

I'd also like to see some heavy tracked vehicles. Khurasan, do you have a copy of the Colonial Marines Technical Manual? I want an M22 medium tank, M34 light tank, and M40 heavy tank, plus the M158? Self-propelled Howitzer. Or the closest approximation you can reasonably achieve.

Merkava-like inclined glacis plate, turret set at the rear of the vehicle.

Wheel/track hybrid? How about this:

Pretty much a 1 on the Mohs scale of Sci-fi Hardness, but still kind of cool.

@LBW: What I was envisioning was a vehicle with regular wheels and tires that had on board a pair of rubber tracks that could be fit over the wheels for times when the terrain requires it, like this:

link

@Lion: If you can find a copy of that book, I'd happily give it a shot. Maybe I could Sketchup something together and pass it over to Khurasan.

Old Crow makes a sweet half track.

Still looking for the the big, tall, fully tracked guy

But as an Sci-fi Alternative I can envision a drone. A infantry support vehicle (not walker) with the consideration that all the troops and the vehicle itself were inserted via helos. But it still has to be beefy enough to take a 30mm in the front.

link

Most modern nations have one. The Sci-fi 15mm universe can get by with more than a few. =)

link

Thanks

Looks like the Warrior gets a upgrade and a slightly new look. 2040 is pretty much near future time.

For more details

link

Also found this video pretty inetresting. I believe this contarct is now cancelled, but still a neat concept.

YouTube link

Oh I like that Army prototype drawing !! And I think that tracked AFVs will still be around for awhile. But we will probably be seeing more wheeled, like the Stryker, LAVs, etc., also … Tracked generally have better mobility cross-country. But it appears with the "urbanization" of many places in the world, like we saw in Mogadishu, Fallujah, etc. both wheels and tracks will have there uses …

If you're looking for a "Sci-Fi Bradley", one of my first builds for Rebel was the Earth Force APC. Bradley in spaaace was the basic premise.

link

link

Best,
JBR

Hey John,

Your right the Rebel IFV is the closet to the "current" thing. Need a little more Sci-fi to create the ideal ideal product.

Just like your Camanche is to the current MRAP.

I saw the 6mm Gecko IFV from Plasma Blast games (cannot link the image in, sorry). I think that would make a sweet 15mm Sci-fi vehicle.

plasmablastgames.com

Thanks for the suggestion.