"Anyone else find Slammers Blowers a bit meh?" Topic

I was marveling at all the painted forces in the galleries linked to the previous thread about Hammers Slammers ….
link
… great terrain, treads, VTOLs, infantry and wheeled vehicles. All very inspring and such but when it comes to the actual Hammers Blowers, I just get a big feeling of "meh".

Surrounded by so many vehicles with an ultra-modern or crisp sci-fi asthetic, they seem a bit dated. I've seen the vehicles in various states painted and uppainted over the years and want to like them (I love the books) but I just can't. My understanding (I could be very wrong here) is that they are based on deisgns that go back to the days when the novels were first published. Perhaps that's what I'm reacting to, but there are other 80's designs (e.g.star wars) that I quite like and feel quite timeless.

Anyone else feel this way?

Alternatively, if you like the Slammers' Blower tanks and Combat Cars, what about them appeals to you?

I think they look fine, but don't live up to my expectation from the novel covers of the super-huge, armored beasts that have no equal.

Those were superb looking, if a bit impractical.

Still, wonderful eye candy to be sure.

The blowers are fine, the combat cars are not as impressive (but I don't know how to make them stand out any more -- they are military vehicles, designed for a job).

The problem with the super-huge beasts is the 'how do you ship them'… question – like the main battle tank today, a blower is a BIG load to transport, but it beggars the imagination to think of the task of shipping something a large as some of the vehicles on the book covers in the volume described in the books. If they can do that economically, the world is raining soup and there's no need for the slammers.

I actually like the combat cars. They look deadly with firepower that covers a pretty wide arc. The blower tanks have a certain appeal. I doubt I'd paint mine metallic though. I'm planning on getting a platoon of each from Old Crow soon.

Thanks,

John

Love the books, but agree that the blower look leaves me cold. It could be that the current ranges don't quite capture the sheer size of the things – weren't they meant to be equal height to three storeys? I could have mis read that, or my memory is hazy…or both.

In saying this though the design does match the description in the books.

For some reason though I kind of like the combat cars.

They look goofy to me, but if other folks like them then that is fine by me. Such variety makes sci-fi fun.

I*like them , they are nice and smooth as described , and are pretty decent sized . I like mine and will get a couple more .

I like the blowers, don't like the combat cars. I just don't like Open Topped vehicles for my Sci-Fi.

Yeah, I understand about open topped. However, in the Slammer's books that's how they were.

Thanks,

John

I like them and they actually are pretty actuate to the description in the books as I remember they were normally only two people in each tank so that's a lot of metal around them. Oh and David Drake also helped Jez with the models if I recall that correctly but as anyone who reads the novals and looks at cover art we all have different perspectives of what we see :)

Cheers Matt

I like the tanks but thought the ones in the novels were more rounded/sculpted looking than the Old Crow models. really thought the tanks by Top Gun Ace before he quit business were more like the Slammers but they were never available in my preferred scale (6mm). As to color, didnt the books describe them as more chrome like or polished silver looking though that doesnt make sense for a combat vehicle.

Old Crows combat cars look to me like the Slammers but I hate the command car.

The artillery vehicle is OK but does not look as massive as I envisioned those used by the Slammers.

Well, I have been rereading the Slammers stories. They totally mention the metal all the time in the books. But that is the metal they are made of. When Hammer takes over a government all the tanks are a polished metal. I'm just not sure if they were painted when in the field.

Thanks,

John

As to color, didnt the books describe them as more chrome like or polished silver looking though that doesnt make sense for a combat vehicle.

Very bright, very shiney reflective in Posleen new books as this is the way the camouflage system looks when not on. When turned on you cannot see them.

So, I can sell you the best painted camouflaged late-posleen regiment if you like? Camouflage is turned on though, but only $600 USD! :-)

Postage is very cheap also.

If I remember from the rule books, it was the stowage that made them cool looking. I like the idea of the beat up, combat worn tanks and cars – especially with the unit markings.

Steve

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the look either. They remind me of my childhood drawings.

IMHO, they lack a (hard-to-define) 'cool' factor.

Well as already mentioned the models made by Old Crow were approved by Drake himself … That being said, some don't like the design concepts. I don't have a problem with them … Both the Blower MBT hull and turret are very ballistically sound as it the Combat Car hull … And Drake knew for heavy armor/AFVs to survive in modern/future warfare that he had to come up with AIs & tribarreled Powerguns to attrite CAS and FA … The bare metal hulls, IIRC, did help deflect Laser type weapons … Again, it is just one man's concepts/ideas based on his experiences with the 11th ACR in Vietnam and knowledge of history … Of course I may be a little biased, as I commanded an M113 Company in the late '80s … And he kind of based the M9 Combat Car on the ACAVs that the 11th used in RVN, which were basically M113s … BTW, here's my 6mm Slammer TF …so far … link

I'm generally of the opinion that the GZG ACAV makes a better looking Combat Car than the official stuff, but the official blowers definitely have a distinctive look.

As per what L4 and others have said, here, in the end, guys, the bottom line is that the major vehicle designs are what Dave Drake saw in his "mind's eye" when he wrote. Before I came into this project, I'd already had a go at designing them based on what I read in the books (see some of the older GZG vehicles). I was quite happy (at the time) with those designs (and they served a purpose: they were put into production and got the whole 'official' Slammers thing started). But they weren't 'faithful' to the concepts.

One has to remember that Dave's a writer and based what he wanted on what he felt and – to some extent – on his own (well documented) experiences. What he's not is an SF 'cinematic' vehicle designer or graphic artist.

I think it's interesting that – as I've said on these threads before (and elsewhere) – the first thing I said to Dave was "Do the designs I've already done look like what you had in mind?". In receiving a negative response, my next question was: "what about the book covers? Do they bear any resemblance?".

"No".

So we started again from there. After much "up a bit, down a bit, left a bit, right a bit, higher, lower, wide etc etc" the designs I produced in 2D – which were very faithfully rendered by Old Crow in 3D – were what the author wanted so that's what we got.

I grant you, they are definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and I can see why: they're not easy to paint* (especially in ‘bare metal'**) not because a can of silver spray is hard to apply, but because the detail level that is required to ‘lift' them beyond being the huge hunks of metal that the stories describe. I think that comes across well in the stories and the downside, as it were, with the models is that they require a huge amount of kit on them to look ‘right'. But that's what Drake described…

The ‘cool' factor of lots of miniatures in this vein is without doubt an issue: when compared to the Slammer's blowers (especially the Slammers tanks which all look way too much like JS3s and who likes post war Soviet armour? ) can look 'unusual'. But it is interesting how – when an author develops a look in his "mind's eye" (Heinlein's Starship Troopers jump suits would be another case in point) – this rarely makes it through to ‘Hollywood' where graphic design sells films in the same way that it sells books (via book covers!).

In the end, they are what they are. personally, I view them as a (quite) blank canvas on which to hang just soooo much kit that they never look boring and I'm happy that – for once – the author got what he wanted, but I accept that this isn't to everyone's taste.

I'm very pleased people are interested and happy to discuss the subject. While I'm on it, the third (and probably final) print supplement to Hammer's Slammers The Crucible is due out at the end of the month from Pireme Publications in the special F/SF special Darker Horizons.

John Treadaway
hammers-slammers.com

* forget dry brushing!

** they are usually described as ‘grey' metal as bare iridium and only get polished for ceremonial occasions! There is only one reference to a painted blower in the books – combat cars in one story: see below for the 'dazzle' pattern camo

I admit, when you say 'hovertank' the blowers are NOT what comes to mind. The Old Crow models are nowhere near sleek enough for that.

However, if you say 'Slammers blower', then those models are very definitely right. The blowers in the stories are (almost) never merely bare iridium, they have heat-patterns and other scars all over them, not to mention the 'bag-ladys cart' of personal gear on them.

From The Tank Lords on the Baen Free Library:

Lady Miriam and her entourage rushed back from the barred windows of the women's apartments on the second floor, squealing for effect. The tanks were so huge that the mirror-helmeted men watching from the turret hatches were nearly on a level with the upper story of the palace.
…
The Baron's soldiers were mostly off-worlders themselves. They had boasted that they were better men than the mercenaries if it ever came down to cases. The fear that the women had mimed from behind stone walls seemed real enough now to the soldiers whose bluster and assault rifles were insignificant against the iridium titans which entered the courtyard at a slow walk, barely clearing the posts of gates which would have passed six men marching abreast.

Even at idle speed, the tanks roared as their fans maintained the cushions of air that slid them over the ground. Three of the Baron's men dodged back through the palace doorway, their curses inaudible over the intake whine of the approaching vehicles.

Big, almost two stories tall, wider than 6 men marching shoulder to shoulder. And not sleek at all, more akin to metallic boulders.

Yup, that's a Slammer's Blower.

I like them, as others have said, "that's how they are". HS is a pretty gritty series, not as stylized as Star Wars or some others. And most good real world tanks don't have too much style to them.

Having said that, I'm game for stylized settings too – VSF, Ogre, Bolo (using Germy's 2mm line from GZG).

Great pics JT !!! And boy wundyr yes, AFVs are designed for function not style … As I said, the M113's in my Company, were barely designed for function … a block with sloped front on tracks … Not very ballistic … The M60 and M1 MBTs I had the pleasure to work with were generally better ballistically … But IMO none of them were very "pretty" … especially when you threw a track or blew an engine !!! When you look at the Slammer models … I can easily imagine tracks under those steel skirts … And much more functional than an M113, M60, M1 or even an M2/M3 hull … But you work with what you got !!

Definitely, the designs are very retro in a not very pleasing way. Especially dislike the pinheaded tanks.

I preferred GZGs interpretation of the blower/hover tank & combat cars. I do like Old Crows, but not as a Slammer type tank.

Wish I had gotten a few of the GZGs when they were available.

Definitely like the stowage shown in Treadway's pics. Anyone make these items in 6mm? Could make and cast my own but I am a bit lazy.

BTW I have the blowers and combat cars. Anyone have suggestions for command cars and artillery models in 6mm which could substitute for the Old Crow models?

Al

Definitely like the stowage shown in Treadway's pics. Anyone make these items in 6mm? Could make and cast my own but I am a bit lazy.

Yes:

TMP link

Thanks AB,

I had read your post about doing that for FUBAR but forgot about the stowage bits.

Al

Anyone have suggestions for command cars and artillery models in 6mm which could substitute for the Old Crow models?

Drop me a mail with what they should look like and I will have a ponder.

mail@angelbarracks.co.uk

BTW I have the blowers and combat cars. Anyone have suggestions for command cars and artillery models in 6mm which could substitute for the Old Crow models?

I think* Crow's other Hammer stuff should be out imminently in 6mm

John T

*hope?

Hockey-Pucks.

Yes, I wait for the 6mm Slammer Hover-Jeeps to finish my TF… Plus other Merc units AFVs from the Slammer universe are also to be released … soon … as JT said … I hope ! BTW … I use GZG's 6mm NAC Infantry and Skimmers for 6mm Slammer Grunts. Jon at GZG, originally designed those with the Slammers in mind …