" zombies vs werewolves in the 18th Century who would win?" Topic

Was reading a few, okay several older threads on TMP and while I can see a scenario for both I am thinking a F&I War or Pirate scenario vs werewolves, While reading some of the threads I saw a few with zombies as well. So it begs the question in a fight set in the 18th Century between Zombies and Werewolves who would win. Who would the humans fight first? Thoughts?
VR
James Mattes

Zombies can die with crushed skulls, werewolves can't die unless with silver. Zombies don't know what silver is. Winner – Werewolves.

But are werewolves immune to a zombie plague? If so, then werewolves easily. If not: werewolf zombies and humanity looses.

Aaawoooo werewolf zombies of London.

Why can't the zombies in mass hold down a werewolf and eat its brain.

I think the zombies would stumble into view and humans recognise them first as a threat to fight off.

I don't think that the zombies would care either way. So wolves lose.

There was a great piece of artwork in the original CHILL rpg that had a werewolf fighting a bunch of zombies. I think the Werewolves would win hands , er, paws down. Speed strength and tenactity would rule out over mindless shambling and numbers.

Werewolves – fast moving, intellegent, aggressive.
Zombies – slow moving, 'dead', aggressive.
Werewolves FTW unless overrun by sheer numbers of zombies.

As a Human up against them? Get the werewolves first, especially with the effects of their bite.

What if the zombies had silver fillings in their teeth?!?! Look out werewolves!

What if the werewolves ate the zombies then became zombie werewolves? Or werewolf zombies?

What if a zombie-werewolf gets bitten by a vampire?

Now you're all just being silly!

Good question! No simple answer. Kind of like rock-paper-scissors.

Ninjas could take them all.

No.

Chuck Norris.

JohnG

A very enjoyable and interesting thread!
And, no, thinking 'gradually' from werewolves and zombies to a vampirized zombified werewolf is not that silly: an exciting thought experiment, and, who knows? Such can happen during campaign?.

And very promising in any case: looking eagerly forward to discover the first 'adventure' report! Thanks in advance for sharing.

Now, the 'Great Old Ones' are older than Humankind, and certainly had human worshipers since the early Stone Ages, so what about adding Cultists of Constipated Cthulhu
to the mix?

Not irrelevant: TMP link
An attempt of a beginning of relevant 'web bibliography':
link
(scroll a little down for the 'fantasy' elements if not interested by the 'Sci-Fi in tricornes' ones).
Older post (with links) link

I suspect you already know all of these:
link
link
link
link
link

(and please if you know other similar links, please share with us!).

NURSE!!!!!

James needs his medications upped again.

:)

Why yes yes he does. The things you think of when you are off work.

I thought about this again this morning. And it begs the question:

What happens if YOU eat a zombie before they eat you?

VR
James Mattes

Regarding the original question, maybe I'm biased because of the sympathy of my campaign character toward the ruling line of Pangaean Vorlund: link link about the ancestry of which weird rumors abound link
YouTube link
but I see the average werewolf as efficient as 'Resident Evil' Alice when it comes to slaughter zombies. Thus even at 10:1 zombies would not have a chance.

Empirical support: according to the Underworld 'Romeo & Juliet' romance YouTube link vampires and werewolves are equally matched. Then, I tend to see the 'ghouls' of 'Hellsing Ultimate' as equivalent to zombies (not as quick as the 'contaminated' of [Rec], but on the other hand still ± able to use weapons they knew 'before'). And even a novice, incomplete 'Draculina' can exterminate them by baker's dozens: YouTube link .

Regarding zombies, their nature and abilities:
TMP link
TMP link
and specially:
link

@Historicalgamer:
link

link (*lot* of eye-candy).

link
link
link
link

TMP link
update: TMP link TMP link

What happens if YOU eat a zombie before they eat you?

Depends… of 'infectious' nature or not? And even if infectious… does the 'agent' survives digestion? If so, you'd be contaminated only if your gastric ulcers open a 'door' to the invader.
In a 'Resident Evil' (3?), crows were seemingly contaminated eating zombies corpses.
.
.
.
.
I suspect 'Undead' pirates can easily be converted to 18th C. zombies: just turn the slouched hat into a tricorne.
link

abdul666lw 20 Aug 2011 5:55 a.m. PST wrote:
Regarding the original question, maybe I'm biased because of the sympathy of my campaign character toward the ruling line of Pangaean Vorlund:

I love that Idea as I wanted to do some more 18th Centry figures in 28mm but did not want to do all 7YW as I can't justify it with my current projects. Your posting over the past few years have been a great infulence on my idea for the project. I have tons of Pirates that I am going to use as well.

One question? Where did you get Your Werewolves, they are the best I have seen.

Your link to U-Tube has me thinking. What is the difference between a Zombie and a Ghoul? OH a new posting!

VR
James Mattes

Unless the zombie plague has silver in it, it will have no effect on the werewolfs. Also the wolfs speed and power would make them almost imposable to pin down with numbers.

@ James: not my minis, I'm just spreading the 'good word'! Since you are s 'supporting member' and able to send PM to your TMP peers, ask Cardinal Hawkwood, the 'acting chairman' of the NPU Australian forum. I'll send him a message through the forum to draw his attention to this thread.

Btw an intriguing idea: if both "zombification" and "vampirization" follow the infectious 'Matheson model', TMP link an interesting consequence could be a form of cross-immunity?
I feel harder to give a 'materialist' origin to lycanthropy as generally ( = a very spectacular shapeshifting) depicted, but if also a contagious disease (with mainly psycho-somatic effects leading to a limited physical distorsion? 'Mr Hyde' always struck me as an 'artificial werewolf'), one can imagine interesting consequences…

@ James 'vojvoda' Mattes: if you don't already have one, you should really open a blog to share our project. it's free, easy -even a dinosaur from the Mechanical Typewriters Age can manage, believe me- and requires no maintenance. There is NO medium more reader-friendly, where you can post images (enlarged by 'clicking') in right place in the corresponding text. And it's purely your own personal dazibao, your messages are not intermingled with those from other people.
Cheers!

Debate carried to the Australian NPU 'Fortress':
link

Werewolves everytime,if there are too many, we….I mean they can just high tail it out of there.
The silver question is a dodgy subject and my research has shown no link to werewolf mortality,it is purely an Hollywood affectation,sort of a get out of gaol card for the humans. At some stage soon I shall write a full piece on werewolf pysiology.

Werewolves susceptibility to silver implies a *magical* nature, being similar to the (old) vulnerability of elves to iron. Regardless of their supposed origin (e.g. children of Catholic priests, for werewolves) the most likely / parsimonious hypothesis is that 'magical creatures' evolved on a parallel universe where the 'human' line has parapsychological / psionic powers (appearing as 'magical' to 'us'). Thus they had no need to develop technology, and if they are at early Bronze Age it's partly copied on us: now and then a 'portal' appears between our 2 universes. Some are quasi permanent, such as the 'Hell's Mouth' under Sunnydale. Time may pass at a different speed in the two universes (time vectors not parallels), as often reported when humans were carried for a time to the 'World of Faerie'. Denizens of this 'other world' developed an 'immunity' (automatic self-healing) against bronze weapons, and were at first highly vulnerable (a break-down of whole 'immunity', as with AIDS?) to weapons caused by iron. Soon the developed a new immunity to iron, but never to silver (not encountered often enough); and the immunity to wounds caused by wood they had developed during the earliest steps of Human evolution was lost, being unused since the late Neolithic. Yes, this implies that vampires AND werewolves (and 'Elves', 'Faeries', 'Demons', 'Angels'…) can be 'hurt', and, if hit in a vital part, killed by silver AND wood. What happened was no more than a historical accident: the first vampire kills recorded were scored with wooden staffs, the first werewolves kills with silver cutlery.
Meaning that 'new' metals such as ordinary *aluminum* would be almost automatically lethal for all creatures from this 'parallel universe'; no need of titanium!

This 'model' (!) explains a lot with a single hypothesis, abiding to Occam's requirement -and turns supernatural-based Fantasy to Sci-Fi.

Then I confess to prefer, everywhere applicable, the more mundane Matheson model' of a contagious disease with multiple forms TMP link .
Works easily for ghouls, vampires and most of zombies; harder to explain lycanthropy, unless the spectacular shape shifting is a gross exaggeration and the (periodical) effects essentially psychological, with limited morphological distortions a la Mr Hyde.
But then, crisis of lycanthropy being triggered by the (polarized?) light of the full moon, the 'disease' would imply a form of photosensitiveness, as many (not all TMP link ) types of vampirism do. A photoresponse quite different indeed, but 'in the Real World' microbial strains having diverged long enough ago, while still recognizable as genetically related, may cause quite different symptoms.
With suggest intriguing possibilities of partial cross -immunity?
And it would even explain how two brothers, bitten one by a bat, the other by a wolf, each carrying in its saliva glands a very different variety of the same infectious agent, turned one to a vampire, the other to a werewolf…

Then when it comes to animated scarecrows one obviously cannot but have recourse to an entirely different explanation. My favorite 'SF' one is an immaterial entity (possibly of E.T. origin?) not dissimilar to the 'Vitons' in 'Sinister Barrier' link -though non-scientific people could easily called it 'angel', 'imp' or 'spirit'. Somehow coerced into entering the scarecrow (or skeleton, or full suit of plate armor -or even mummy?) and animating it.

in the 'weird FIW' vein
link

Not answering the original question, but relevant to the topic and too good to be ignored:

(illustrates the report by a French player of his first game of 'Strange Aeons' and his conclusion that the game can easily be set in any period one likes and already has some 'human' minis for: link).