"Starfleet Wars: Why bother?" Topic
15 Posts
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TheBeast | 20 Oct 2010 7:19 a.m. PST |
Awhile back, TMP link a member whined 'Gah
now this has me looking for a copy of the old 'Starfleet Wars' rules from the '70s
as if I need another set of space-battle rules.' Knowing the feeling too well, I felt a warning appropriate, but
I've got them somewhere, not for sale, but finding and refreshing my memory would be arduous, if possible. Does anyone remember these well enough to confirm they were not merely simple, but simplistic, almost lacking any facing, maneuver, or fire arcs? Doug |
Battle Works Studios | 20 Oct 2010 8:26 a.m. PST |
Simplistic is an accurate if somewhat harsh description. The game lacked facing rules and firing arcs, can't recall if there were turning rules but I doubt it. About one step up from the original Fletcher Pratt naval rules in terms of complexity. Still enjoyable back in the day, but I doubt I'd want to play the rules today without significant house rules added on. |
TheStarRanger | 20 Oct 2010 8:51 a.m. PST |
No turning rules that I can remember, just a distance moved which cost in power the square of the distance moved, up to '5' (inches) I think. Like BWS, I wouldn't play these rules today but I still like the background and the minis. |
Bill Rosser | 20 Oct 2010 1:05 p.m. PST |
The minis were great, still some of the best for spaceships (big ones) IMO. The rules, not good. Remember trying to play and realizing nothing you did on the tabletop meant a thing. Just a dice rolling exercise. Anything would be better. (and I still have them taking up space on my gamerules shelf I'm afraid). Bill R |
Space Monkey | 20 Oct 2010 5:50 p.m. PST |
I was that whiner! Hah! Yeah
I didn't imagine them to be a fabulous set of rules that would have me ditching Full Thrust
it was more of a nostalgia thing, because I've always liked those ships and remember reading those names 'Super Galactic Dreadnought' when I was a kid and being intoxicated by the visions that danced through my head. Since then I've managed to collect a number of the miniatures but still have no idea of the original background setting
or if there was one
so 'why bother' finding a copy of the rules? I dunno
just to see what I never saw. Same goes for Maatac
love the minis and don't have a clue what the rules are like
but their on my list. |
DesertScrb | 20 Oct 2010 9:32 p.m. PST |
I've not played the game, but I have read the rules. Yeah, Starfleet Wars was pretty simplistic--no firing arcs, for example--but complicated in execution: i.e. you might need a hand calculator for some of the power allocation math. I've posted several articles about Starfleet Wars on my blog; you can find those posts here: link |
TheBeast | 21 Oct 2010 8:38 a.m. PST |
@Pong Just because of one whine,not a whiner does that make you! Honestly, hope I didn't offend. That said, DesertScrb has it in one: painful math to do in your head for something without tactical merit. I stand by the harsh critique, even for that long ago. Lou Zocchi's ST Battle Manual preceded it by a year, and that was only the first early game that came to mind. I had both book 2 and the observer manual, which may have mitigated that a bit. Doesn't detract from the beauty of the ships, of which my collection still grows, though many are even more detailed on the underside than the top, nor of richness of the five 'races', though I also don't recall a lot of fluff in the rule set, per se. Don't expect 'captain's log' excerpts or much empire descriptions. Thanks, guys! Memory is pretty fuzzy on this one. Doug |
(I make fun of others) | 21 Oct 2010 9:08 a.m. PST |
The rules were even worse than a die rolling exercise. There were ship matchups that were hopeless, like Carnivorans and Aquarians. All the Aquarians had to do was run and shoot and the Carnivorans could never get in range to shoot back at all. We packed it up at that point. Brings back memories though! The ships were class and we really loved the evocative alien races. Anyone remember those large display models they made of the Terran and then each alien race? Those were brilliant! Too bad those statues (90mm perhaps?) can't be found these days, very evocative of 70s sci fi fun. |
Space Monkey | 21 Oct 2010 4:54 p.m. PST |
@TheBeast, No offense taken at all, I thought it was funny. Anyone remember those large display models they made of the Terran and then each alien race? Are there photos of those anywhere? Has anyone tried Maatac? |
earthad | 21 Oct 2010 11:19 p.m. PST |
tried Maatac and i really like it, but again it is very simplified. It's the sought of game you play when you want a fast ground battle without the hassle of working everything out. Instructions are only 17 pages (16 if you don't count the catalog). |
GreyONE | 11 Feb 2011 10:11 p.m. PST |
I play MAATAC, although with modified rules. E.H.
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BlackWidowPilot | 11 Feb 2011 10:49 p.m. PST |
The ships are still very much available: link
I just finished adding an Entomalian battlecruiser and battleship to my case upstairs in the game room. More Terran and Carnivorian ships are next
such things of beauty, even for models that date back to the 70s!
Leland R. Erickson
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DesertScrb | 12 Feb 2011 8:27 a.m. PST |
Anyone remember those large display models they made of the Terran and then each alien race? Are there photos of those anywhere?
Venusboys3, sorry I didn't see this until just now. I'll answer your question regarding the large-scale (100mm) figures of each species by directing you to this blog post with photos and a website where they're for sale: link And MAATAC is still available: link Leland, I agree on the attractiveness of these ships--and we need to see pictures of your latest additions! |
Lerchey | 21 Feb 2011 12:50 p.m. PST |
porfirio, et al. I still have my (never finished) 90mm Superior Carnivore commander model. It's in a box
sitting. Nice model. The Entomolian was cool as well, but I didn't much care for the others. As others have already stated, the rules were not much fun and were very simplistic. The power generation system, while it could get a bit complex, was kind of neat in that it make you choose between firepower, shields and movement. Each ship had a max amount of power available and a max amount of firepower and shields. Completely made up example: My Destroyer has 30 power. It can do a max of 3 attack, 3 shields, and (all ships) up to 5 movement. If I max out my attack and defense (each factor uses it's value squared in power), I use 9+9=18 points and then have 12 points left for movement, which gives me a max move rating of 3 = total of 27 power used. As ships took damage, they lost the ability to generate power, and thus were weakened and/or eventually slowed. There was some nice "history" about he races – terrans were pursuit ships with lots of speed and forward fire power. Entomolians (bugs) were "swarmers", the Carnivores were "pouncers", etc. Sadly, the ship designs and rules didn't really support the back story. I now prefer cleaner ship designs. While I did like the Superior ships, it always seemed to me that the designer created a basic hull shape, covered it in glue and then rolled it through a box of old bolts, nuts and electronic components. :) |
DesertScrb | 21 Feb 2011 1:11 p.m. PST |
While I did like the Superior ships, it always seemed to me that the designer created a basic hull shape, covered it in glue and then rolled it through a box of old bolts, nuts and electronic components. :) Heh! That's a (slightly) unfair and (entirely) funny description of these designs! I can't disagree. All those greeblies do make the ships easy to paint, and I can really bring out the details using my three-color drybrush method. |
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