"Forstchen's Lost Regiment (Down To The Sea): THE KAZAN" Topic

If anyone here is familiar with the Lost Regiment series, you may also be familiar with the last novel, Down To The Sea, which describes contact with a more advanced version of the Hordes . . . called the Kazan, and takes place some 20 years after the Lost Regiment is teleported to the planet Valennia:

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These massive, simian-like Kazan are huge and consider humans cattle. In addition, they rely more on technology than their Horde cousins.

Physical description of the Horde simians (with Mongol technology):

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QUESTION:

If someone were to pit Pole Bitwy's Simians against human soldiers with the technology described in Down To The Sea, should the humans be 15mm American WWI soldiers or from before WWI (perhaps like American troops around the time of the Boxer Rebellion)?

Pole Bitwy's Simians:

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TMP link

It seems to me that by the time Down To The Sea takes place, the generation that followed the original Civil War Union soldiers experienced an accelerated technological spurt which allowed them to develop airships and early planes within the space of just a couple of decades.

The Kazan were a lot more advanced than that, of course, with large battleships and very high tech weapons for their infantry – and no longer horse-dependent like their Horde cousins.

Any thoughts?

Dan

I haven't read this book yet, but had read the others in the universe a few years back. I always thought they'd make great gaming fodder.

From the descriptions given, my guess would be that the humans should be either WWI (with helmets) as their porimary opponent used bows and swords or, depending upon how thoroughly they've been free of the Horde threat, perhaps Spanish-American War (no helmets--but the hats don't have to be the typical "campaign hat" look--could be more like the Austro-Hungarian hats in the early period of WW1).

Rob

My guess too. The humans would probably be in-line with Earth around 1900 where the Kazan are probably more into WWI. I read part of the book, but I didn't really finish it (I was pretty tired of the series by this point).

One change in human technology would be the caliber of their firearms. They probably stuck with larger shells from stopping power against the Hoard races. That would be my guess anyway.

Model wise, I would say that you could use any Colonial European/Pre WWI range. Maybe French? I seem to remember human infantry wearing Kepis?

28mm Orcs vs 15mm humans?

Katzbalger,

I like your suggestion about an Eastern European influence (Austro-Hungarian), instead of following the strict American evolution of the uniform.

I guess that my reason for that would be the strong Russian element from the start of the Lost Regiment series (20 years before Down To The Sea). The primary allies from the beginning were people of medieval Russian descent.

I would have to look up what those uniforms really looked like but, in theory, Austro-Hungarian could represent a good mix of Eastern European and American.

Now, in the Down To The Sea novel, the medieval Simians (Tugars, Merki, etc.) are no longer the main threat. Instead, their Simian cousins the Kazan are the real problem, and they seem to have a late 20th technological level (though, in some ways, I seem to remember more near future aspects).

So, technologically speaking, we are looking at late 19th century or early 20th century humans fighting against a late 20th century enemy.

Dan

I initially thought, "Russian influence on uniform development." But then changed my mind--sort of. The primary influence would be the Union troops--since they broought the methods that defeated the hordes. That would be modified by the need to keep production simple (since at least early on, everything was basically war footing). That would mean kepi with a gymnasterka (sp?) shirt. Eventually, with the defeat of the hordes, you would get more complicated and less simple uniforms and probably some evolution of the kepi/forage cap.

The Austro-Hungarian hats could be (or are) an evolution of that hat style--okay, they probably evolved from the tall shako hats, but so did the kepi, so the look is somewhat similar.

I don't think that the low peaked hat figures used for Russian Revolution or Russo-Japanese war really capture that look, but they'd work for a different version too--or with a swap for kepis, might be great for an intermediate period.

Or msybe I'm just over-thinking this.

Anyway, I'd love to see someone do a game of this and put up the AAR.

Rob

25 mm vs. 15 mm would be way out of scale I'd believe. More like 20 mm vs. 15 mm. If I recall the Kazan are supposed to be like heavy 7 footers vs. the human 5'8" to 6' height.

The early books are the ACW humans vs. Mongols Kazan, while (in my opinion) the last books would be Boer War vs. VSF WWI (steam tanks and MGs, gas lift aircraft, armored trains, etc.).

Dan

I have thought about this and agree with Dan, the Kazan/Tugars are tall but not that tall

I think that the human uniforms may well be a blend of practical ACW type style with Russian influenced civilian elements, so a low cap and a peasant blouse would make a lot of sense

Helmets? Maybe – but by the time that the humans ran into the Kazan, the Tugars had been well and truly beaten for a while, and why would they use helmets unless they were against someone with projectile weapons

On this topic, what happened to the series? Any sign of a sequel on the horizon, because as I recall the book ended with the humans in very big trouble

It was a great idea – I especially liked the dreadnaught-type battleships the Kazan used

Frederick: "I especially liked the dreadnaught-type battleships the Kazan used"

Hmm. But, overall, would you say that the Kazan were early, mid or late 20th century, in technology?

Dan

Dan, you could use the upcoming lesser Simians as an alternative. They should be around 15mm.

That is one SF series I still need to read. Decisions, decisions… So many books, so little time, even with ebooks and reading on the bus… Arrrgh ! :D

Pole Bitwy,

It is worth reading. However, if you must read only one, I suggest going straight to Down To The Sea.

It takes place 20 years after the last war, with a new generation that faces an entirely new threat (the advanced Kazan).

Dan

Too bad we will never have anymore books for this series. I really loved them they are really great books.

Dan: I saw the Kazan as early 20th century, maybe early WWI

The ships had turrets and coal engines, used speaking tubes, no radios – sounds a bit like the Great White Fleet

Aha! Excellent.

So we are looking at, perhaps, early WWI Kazan fighting against a somewhat similarly armed human enemy.

For some reason I thought that the Kazan were more advanced. Maybe it was just the fact that they had a big fleet of ironclad battleships, while the humans were behind in building one.

Thanks for the reminder.

I need to go through boxes and see if I can dig up my copy to see what other bits I can find.

Dan

Actually, looking at my copy of Down to the Sea, I would say pre-WWI for the Kazan. Their artillery is still blackpowder, primitive fire control (not nearly as advanced as WWI naval gunnery, steam powered multi-barreled lighter caliber guns on the ships, fairly primitive aircraft (part air ship).

Insofar as personal weapons, one of the Bantag had an eight shot cartridge revolver and in an arena exhibit one of the weapons used was a gatling served by two Shiv in Republic uniforms. Not sure how advanced their other weapons are without re-reading more.

Republic uniform is apparently a blue sack coat with khaki trousers.

May reread more latter for update.

For ship to ship battles I would use Houstons Foreign ships with the humans having US ships from 1890s (not the big ones)ans the Hoard using some types of 1905-1912 French, Russian or that type vessel. You could do some kit bashing and produce some ship launched aircraft…. Hmmmm sounds like something for me to do. I have read and re-read the series a few times. And played in a land battle at "Carnage in the Mountains) convention run by someone else. It was from the earlier periods first contact time. A lot of fun.

Age of Iron Expansion rules in 1:1200 scale. Use some WW 1 1:700 or 1:1200 planes from model ships or something. Move the planes like semi guided torpedoes. Hmmmmm

Excellent ideas!

Thanks so much for all that good and specific info.

Dan