"Vietnam in 28mm - What Rule Set are you using and Why? " Topic

I picked up a lot of 28mm vietnam figures a couple of years back now and have been stripping some of paint ready to repaint and base.

Now, I would like to pick your brains, on rule sets.

1. Which rule set do you use for 28mm vietnam games?
<assuming you play this period of course.>

2. Why do you use that particular rule set?
<what mechanics, etc won you over.>

I would appreciate peoples views.

Thanks.

Have you checked the recommendations listed in this thread?

TMP link

Yes, I have most of those mentioned in that link for 20mm or 1/72nd apart from force on force. Its in 28mm scale I am interested not 20mm.

I have played FNG, Flashpoint, and a few home brew rules, all with different size figures.

Just curious, why does figure size change what rules you would use?

Mark Severin
Owner, Scale Creep Miniatures
ScaleCreep.com
FlagshipGames.com
DeepFriedHappyMice.com

How many figures do you want to use? Are your looking for super detailed or super fast play? Do you want full control of your troops or a bit of the "command feel"?

Goose: Most rules aren't that scale specific and can be used with 15, 20, and 28mm (and sometimes larger).

Any of the sets mentioned in that thread will work for miniature scale.

What you probably want to know is what unit scale you want to work with: 1:1 man to man squad vs squad, platoon vs platoon, or larger.

Well for starters both FNG and Ambush Valley (Force-on-Force) can be used for 28mm, both are scale indifferent. They are both aimed at different scales, FNG focusses on the man-to-man aspects while Ambush Valley has the fire team as the main focus.

Both are good sets of rules… But I would say that, I like FNG and I wrote Ambush Valley!

I agree with Big P (yet again … it's getting a habit) FNG and AV are the best pure V rules under company level.

Rich J

Hi Guys,
Cheers. The reason I put 28mm, was to try and rule out those rule sets that use multifigure basing. I play 1:1 representative games. I would like a rule set to play games from simple squad patrols upto a platoon sized forces.

I have found in the past, that many systems in 20mm or smaller start to make assumption.

I enjoy rule sets where, the player is put in the position fo the senior officer, in the fashion that Rules of Engagement for WW2 does.

I am also interested in why, peopel chose their rule set of preference. What is the key thing that appealed. For me, and ROE for WW2 for instance, it was it gave me games i could play in our clubs time frame of 2-3hrs, and it gave a style of play I think fits very well with the actions of infantry units of that size, during the actual conflict. Attacks, counter attacks, feints, and enfilading fire etc.

So it is interesting to get peoples views.

I had a good look at a recent show at Force on Force, but I held off on the price. I do have a copy of FNG which I am reading at the moment. Both those and Charlie Company seem to be the staples for the period.

I have even been looking at Final Combat for WW2 patrol level games and have noted they have an expansion for vietnam.

Big P, I admire your honesty and its interesting to note the difference in troops focus, cheers. I just wish the AA games were quote so pricey to buy over this side of the pond. lol.

The reason I put 28mm, was to try and rule out those rule sets that use multifigure basing.

Surely it would have been beneficial to mention that you are looking for rules using individual basing? I can think of more than enough games that use 28mm models with multiple figures on a base (not Vietnam specific ones, though).

I enjoy rule sets where, the player is put in the position fo the senior officer, in the fashion that Rules of Engagement for WW2 does.

I only bought my copy of RoE yesterday, but as far as I can tell it puts you into the boots of a platoon leader/commander, hardly a senior officer position.

Big P, I admire your honesty and its interesting to note the difference in troops focus, cheers. I just wish the AA games were quote so pricey to buy over this side of the pond

Check out Elhiem Figures… He has recently reduced his prices on AAG rulebooks and supplements. Dont forget you can always get the PDFs direct from AAG at a cheaper price.

I used Charlie Company before AV and really enjoyed it… Good solid game that captures the period well.

I agree with Big P (yet again … it's getting a habit)

Watch out Rich… People will talk!

(You still enjoying Black Powder? Just started 28mm AWI Armies cos of it!)

I'd go for FNG if I was you. That's what I play in 28mm. its pretty fast play, although is in need of some work on the rulebook to get it slightly clearer and better laid out. Something Darby's working on if the talk on Fields of Fire forum is to go by.

AV has had some good reviews, but if it's like Ambush Alley, then I don't like the LoS rules, and the generic fireteam build up. You might as well play AA with a fireteam based together.

Big P – loving BP, got distracted NaP wise with Lasalle for a bit but using BP for samurai stuff now (my mods are on the yahoo group)

Back to the question … although my modern set has just come out I would reccommend FNG and AV basically cos they both give an excellent feel of the conflict (as far as I can tell) … AV for bigger forces and FNG for gritty squad stuff – I prefer them over other more generic rules because they are designed to give that FOG and uncertainty inherent in what I have read about the conflict – you are not just playing WWII but set in undergrowth, everything is there!

Rich J

I have to say that despite what Piers said…

Ambush Alley is a big improvement over Charlie Company. While Charlie was doing a good period job it was a closed system designed for cooperative agaisnt umpire (nice thing, but when you do not have access to several players…) while AV allow you more freedom of action.

also the basic system is very well tought and much more easier to manage.

I do not get the generic fireteam point. One thing of AA is that today fireteam are supposed to be generic and modular. It is the basic assumption. FNG and family are at best with a player controlling a squad or two, so you can make personalization. AA was designed with bigger engagement and costraiend by the fact that today fireteam is modualr. AV is a platoon-company games, you have to make some concession. But you can build your fire team (fire team, except for USMC organization were not a standar dunit in vietnam). Still if you want to manage the entire fight some sort of compromise had to be done. Except for leader the bulk of the troops are less personalized. But if you want to have individuals and field reinforced platoons or more that became very difficult without multiple players.

Again it is what you want to represent on the table not a "failure" of the rules.

But for example in larger 15mm games I have fireteam based as an entity.

Arrigo

Again it is what you want to represent on the table not a "failure" of the rules.

Wish more people understood that but they don't. Too many gamers try and adapt rules to fit what they want instead of getting a set that is made for it.

A great example is people say FNG breaks down when you play more than a platoon. Well, it's not designed for more than a platoon.

I mean, you can drive nails into wood with a screwdriver but a hammer works better!

Get several sets, i use FNG for smaller games (platoon) FNG:UW for tiny,, (Special forces, not always so tiny, the vietnamese in my gameroom have the best radios ever, reinforments just pour onto the table)
and will order Iron Ivan's set to use for huge games as soon as i can find a bit of £$£$ to spend :)

Goose666 – as a fellow player of RoE I want to come up with a variant for RoE that can handle the normal level of play and allow for smaller units such as LRRPs.

link

link

Let me know if you are interested and we can work on something.

Hi Goose,
I play 28mm Vietnam using Iron Ivan Games "The Long Road South". I have enjoyed playing Disposable Heroes for years now, and wanted to try the TLRS rules. I was happy with the rules, all the troops, armor, choppers, planes, boats, and Nam flavor. All the Iron Ivan rules are well supported online at the Iron Ivan discussion group (thanks to Chal and Keith and others), and everyone's very friendly.
TLRS plays pretty fast if you are playing with 15 -20 or less soldiers per side- usually 2-3 hours. The rules are easy to grasp and easy to teach. We introduce the rules to newbies at HMGS cons and they usually have the basics in 30 minutes of play. In addition,the rules tend punish fool-hardy commanders either too aggressive or not aggressive enough. The game is fun but complex enough for older gamers, and I recommend it. Good luck in your quest Goose.

So the real off the shelf choices seem to be;
1. Ambush Valley (requiring Force on Force Main Book).
2. FNG
3. The Long Road South (TLRS)

Are there any others people are using for 28mm upto platoon sized games or there abouts?

I have ordered a copy of Final Combat and Flowers of our Time, the vietnam expantion for it.
link
by brittonpublishers.com

I already have a copy of FNG will have a chance to play both. Going to see if i can find a demo game of force on force at one of the shows and see how I like it, before I splash out.

Goose, let me know before you go to a show and I'll check to see if anyone is running a FoF demo there – I'll have 'em save a spot for you!

Have bought a copy of Force on Force with Ambush Valley and the cards. Courtesy of Matt at Elhiem Figures. Picked them up today at the WMMS show. Now just need to get time to have a read and play through a few games.

I gave up trying to make the choice based on net reviews, found many to be majorly confusing. So have charlie company, FNG and Ambush Valley as well as Final Combat for the more roleplaying type games.

If I don't find one I really like out of those, I think I am in trouble.. lol.