"I just thought of somethin really cool!" Topic

Khurasan's Felids:
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Versus
Critical Mass Games's Protolene Khanates:
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Who wins in this galactic Cat vs. Dog… tail… err I mean tale!?! :-D

Sorry to ruin this for you, but I already joked about that in a previous thread.

That is cool!

My money will always to to . . .

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Woof.

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CC
PS. This is the first time I see a thread just for this dog/cat thing.

BTW Khurasan should you consider expanding the Felid line… please think about helmeted troops.
Not that I have a problem with Cats being Cats… I just think these poor kittahs will be highly susceptible to chemical/biological attacks, or the frequent stray piece of shrapnel.

It would be so easy to drag some catnip right into a trap and watch the Felids go after it. :)

CC

Yeah, but the Protolene would be too busy chasing after the tires of their own APCs. ^_^

Well, Protolenes would have Man as their allies (Man's best friend). Since time immemorial, dogs have been with us in very difficult hunts and battles.

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Better paint up some Women troops, if you want Felids to have any allies. Though I don't understand why women like in cats what they hate in men. Oh well.

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CC

Just toss some funk onto the kitty troopers. When they stop to groom their prissy little selves….BOOM…the dogs strike.

Dogs win every time! Felids would be lounging around in their APCs saying "I can haz cheesburger?" and "War? Do not want!" They would also be at a serious disadvantage for sleeping 18 hours a day.

Actually, except for lions, all cats are solitary hunters. They have no concept of working with other cats as a team.

However, dogs will work together to bring down the largest prey or to defend the pack from any outside threat.

CC

Well, Protolenes would have Man as their allies (Man's best friend).

Actually, I think CMG would disagree with you on that one.

However, dogs will work together to bring down the largest prey or to defend the pack from any outside threat.

They can't bring down the largest prey. Packs of dogs cannot kill elephants, nor can Hyenas (which is actually what I think the Protolenes are modeled on). Lions can kill elephants if in packs and do so in Savuti. It doesn't matter that lions are the "only" cats that fight in packs -- so do Felids so they are the natural comparison!

Cats win. All you have to do is give your stargunts a rolled up newspaper and it's all over for the dogs. The cats would look at them as if to say, "you've got to be kidding me."

BTW Khurasan should you consider expanding the Felid line… please think about helmeted troops.

Don't think it would work as it would obscure their identity.

Reports into the situation favour the felids at this time declaring

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;)

BTW Khurasan should you consider expanding the Felid line… please think about helmeted troops.

Don't think it would work as it would obscure their identity.

Their armor isn't already a distinct style?

Khurasan: "Lions can kill elephants if in packs and do so in Savuti. It doesn't matter that lions are the "only" cats that fight in packs -- so do Felids so they are the natural comparison!"

Those Felids aren't lions!!! The snouts are too pointy and the ears aren't even rounded*:

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THESE are lions:

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eastern-empire.com

CC
* Hmmm. With those characteristics I wonder if, painted differently, the "Felids" could pass for evolved Werewolves:
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Cats make better warriors. Dogs make better soldiers. Skirmishes go to the cats. Wars go to the dogs.

Um, earth to CC: those protolenes aren't dogs either. One clue as to that -- they're both walking on thier hind legs only. It's just for fun, relax and go along with it.

CC to "earth" . . .

"Packs of dogs cannot kill elephants, nor can Hyenas (which is actually what I think the Protolenes are modeled on)."

If the Protolenes are supposed to be hyenas, then someone didn't look up what a hyena looks like:

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I'll accept jackals, wolves, even foxes . . . but not hyenas.

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PS. The Protolene helmet looks cool though:
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And that same person apparently didn't look up what a dog looks like either:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

Meanwhile yes, they're basically hyenas. Look at the ridgeback mane and tall triangular ears.

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Edit: here's what Craig at CMG has to say about it -- a mix of hyena and jackal.

The Protolenes actually started life as a cat race called the Felids, we had test sculpts done but where really not happy with the look of them or the way they where going, it was at this point we looked into changing them and Rob came up with some interesting Canine based ideas. This was refined to incorporate a ‘soft' intelligent looking Jackal type face with the aggressive flared ruff of a Hyena, giving us the Protolenes

Neither of which, I hasten to add, is a dog. So, so much for oberving that "the Felids aren't lions."

Khurasan: "So, so much for oberving that 'the Felids aren't lions.'"

Whatev, "earth".

You were the one who said that, for lions, "Felids . . . are the natural comparison!"

You went too specific with your felines. I went broad with canines.

So, there is apparently ONE hyena species that matches the look somewhat. Yet there are hundreds of canines that resemble the Protolenes.

Besides, as you quoted above:

"we looked into changing them and Rob came up with some interesting Canine based ideas"

I don't know why he mentions hyenas in the next line, because they are obviously not canines. But it is clear he meant canine features.

CC

Dude, if you are going to say, they are not lions and here are pictures to show they are not, don't be surprised if my response is, well, the other guys are not dogs either.

The other guys, by your own admission, look like jackals, solitary hunters of little animals, or scavengers.

I'm not the one here saying that they have to look exactly like the pack hunting species in order to hunt cooperatively. I mean, come on. These are scifi creatures.

BTW canine =/= cooperative hunter.

Their armor isn't already a distinct style?

Their armour does not cover up the fact that they are based on cats, but a helmet would. It's an old dilemma in sci fi -- put a helmet on your humanoid and it becomes a lot harder to recognize what they are supposed to be.

The Protolene helmet concept drawing looks awesome:

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Keeps the general Protolene "feel" (canine), yet looks like practical protection. Wow, I guess it CAN be done!

Very much like this little piece of protective gear:

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CC

Man, it's raining Felids and Protolene Khanates out there.

In here too. :)

CC

Felids rule, dogs drool.

Cats vs Dogs…hmmm

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Seriously…I like the Protos but I like the Felids more.

Your Felids don't look like cats, there not supposed to they're Felids If you wanted cat people you'd call them cat people. It's a problem with humans naming things. The English an French asked one tribe what the other tribe was called and they'd say , "Tribe of lousey warriors with stinky feet." So they'd call them that.

Just because they have some MINOR resemblence to a Feline they might consider it and insult and upon seeing the apes and monkeys on ours planet bear a resemblence to us call us all Gorilla Cookie Faced bare butt primates.

Humans….sigh

Their armor isn't already a distinct style?

Their armour does not cover up the fact that they are based on cats, but a helmet would. It's an old dilemma in sci fi -- put a helmet on your humanoid and it becomes a lot harder to recognize what they are supposed to be.

Well yes, but if you have the same armor (and weapon) style for both which is different from the armor (and weapon) styles of the other races, people can mix and match. As long as the helmet will actually fit around the head, its all good. if the helmet also reminds of the felid face, so much the better.

Wow, I guess it CAN be done!

Yes, if you make the helmet look virtually identical to the head, it can.

Most helmets don't, though, and the predator helmet is a great example, so thanks for bringing it up. It looks virtually nothing like the face of the predator itself -- that was the point of having it wear a helmet, to completely hide its identity until the climax of the movie. Functional helmets have a way of doing that.

Khurasan, you must be a blast at parties, when playing pictionary. :)

CC

Pictionary, good reference! Because most people play it for fun, so see it one way … but if they put a thousand dollars, or two, of their own money on the outcome of the game, you'll see it played quite a bit differently.

Khurasan: "the predator helmet is a great example, so thanks for bringing it up. It looks virtually nothing like the face of the predator itself -- that was the point of having it wear a helmet, to completely hide its identity until the climax of the movie."

Hmmm. You mean that, now that the actual face of the Predator was revealed, it would be too difficult for people to recognize the helmet facemask as belonging to that alien?

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Or that this facemask (middle of page) was not hiding a Protolene (while you have other unmasked individuals in the group)?

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CC

I'm not making a movie though, I'm marketing models to go in units for gaming. After the reveal people might recognize the pred helmet as belonging to preds, but my decision is not to dilute the Felid line by covering up the one attribute that makes them what they are.

CMG is obviously very aware of this issue as well, note how extremely similar the helmet is to the face of their creature. They saw customer desire to have helmets, but they also have an interest in asserting the unique protolene look on each model. They found a solution and I think it's a good one. I chose differently and I think I have a rational basis for that as well.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

No problem. I thought you still claimed it couldn't be done. I respect your choice. Your company, your figures, as it well should be.

CC

Exactly, in my opinion it can't be done without obscuring the models marketing points. But naturally other people can come at it from different angles.

Interesting:

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Khurasan, you could take this chance to make rather feline looking helmets (Long, with slit visors, maybe teeth, places for the ears to poke out if you want more identity, or just armored points to hold the ears.)

You could also just do breathers with goggles or other head gear and you get both gear and identity!