"Quality of QRF's "newer" 15mm range?" Topic

Please hear me out, before dismissing me with a "use the search function".

I believe I've done my homework, and read through all the relevant topics as far back as 2005. I've also googled for comparative reviews, and found some very informative ones at Nordalia.

While I've noticed that QRF's 15mm models are generally well received, there seems to be a recurring theme about "older sculpts are servicable, but newer ones are great".

The reviews at Nordalia also mentions that QRF's models have "hit-or-miss" quality. The Panzer II that they reviewed look especially bad, with very shallow detail. link

To be fair, the other thing I noticed was that all of these reviews and comments are pretty old, with most of them written in 2007 (and older).

That brings me to my actual question: How is the quality of QRF's 15mm range now (as in, 2009)?

I'm particularly interested in Russian and German infantry, although I'll probably be picking up some Panzers and T-34's too.

Also, where can I find information on which are the "old" models, and which are the "remastered" ones?

I came across Geoff's post in an older (Jan 2006) TMP topic, where he mentions that: TMP link

There are only a few of the very older pieces left now. The BA10 and Tetrach being 2, both of which are being replaced now.

Can I take this to mean that any model I pick up now (more than 3 years after his comment above) will be the "remastered" ones?

I know that Geoff hears this a lot (and from what I've seen, he's been hearing this for years), but the pictures provided at the QRF website are not enough for me to make an educated decision. (i.e. too small and unpainted, making it hard for the potential buyer to visualize how they'll ultimately look)

If you shoot Geoff an email, maybe he can provide you a free sample or two to judge for yourself? Especially if you post a review of it afterward. I've got some nice freebie 28mm figures that way.

normally, but I recall a post from a few days ago where Geoff mentioned he was away on a family holiday for a bit.

Might be awkward for him to check and post at the mo.

@pinkcat
Oh, no wonder we don't see him around.
New as I am to TMP, I think I've seen enough to know that he would normally have replied to this topic a few hours ago.

@WW2Fanatik
Wow, I didn't know that that's even a possibility.
Where could I find his email address? I don't think his profile page shows it…

Kraussian,

If you are so worried about the quality of the QRF scuplts and castings why not buy a single example of a few of the items you want as samples.

Personally, I've never been disappointed by any of QRFs castings that I have purchased!

@Tarleton
Fair point. But since I'm planning to make at least a platoon (~40 men), I wanted to take advantage of the bulk-order discounts.
Another point to consider is that QRF sells their infantry figures in packs of 8, so I won't actually be buying a single example.

Vehicles are another matter, as they aren't exactly cheap at £5.00 GBP each, and I'm not planning to get many of them anyway.

Another important point is the shipping cost (30% of total order), since I live in the "Rest of The World"…

Actually, I've opened this topic to try and decide between Peter Pig and QRF.

From the pictures I've been able to find online, Peter Pig's range seems to have cleaner and more detailed sculpts. But since they don't offer any volume discounts, QRF would be a more affordable option in my case.

Now, if I can know for sure that QRF's quality is on par with Peter Pig, then that's where my money's going.

Geoff is away at the moment which leaves me answering emails :-)

We started the programme of replacements back in 2005, and as far as vehicles are concerned it's about 90% complete with what I'd describe as most of the common model types having been remastered. There are odd models waiting to be redone for example the late Stug III, Elephant and Sturmtiger are all out of production at the moment.

Our French, Japanese, Romanian, and Hngarian WW2 infantry ranges are 2 to 4 years old (i.e. current), German, U.S. and British & Russian are on the long term list to remaster.

We've also just put on line platoon packs (yes order 3,4 or 5 vehicles with a single click of the mouse).

On average our vehicle models are around £1.50 GBP cheaper(nearly £2.00 GBP if bought in platoon packs) than our main competiton so there are are plenty of sound financial reasons to consider QRF kit as well.

Geoff would probably say something about what great people we are to deal with as well :-)

Infommercial ends…..

Thanks for your helpful Infommercial, paulkit

Could you confirm if the Panzer II that was reviewed by Nordalia (in June 2007, link in my original post above) was one of the older molds, and replaced with a newer one?
(Or maybe the model used in that review was a miscast?)

No offense, but the quality of this model seems to be much lower than other WW2 tanks made by QRF (e.g. Panzer IV, Panther, T-34).

I really want to see painted photos of the "Russian Rifles" (SSI01) set. From what I can see from the photo on QRF's website, they seem to wearing these really big and round helmets… looking for all the world like Old Republic (or was that Rebel?) soldiers from Star Wars!

Anyone know where I may find them? (painted photos, I mean)

The Nordalia Pz 2 does look like an old one, the tracks look very squashed & the 20mm looks a bit thin.

Here's a link to the current model.

link

Afraid I don't have any painted photos to hand of the russian infantry.

Take note of the current German AA guns.
Any that appear from now will be new masters that I made for QRF. They are not yet in production, but they will greatly extend the range available for wargamers. The same applies to the French except that the 75mm AA currently shown is a master I made, but there are others to follow.

QRF does nice clean castings. I made the masters for many of the artillery releases in the past couple of years. I cant vouch for personal opinions of consumers. But I can vouch for having put a hell of a lot of reseach into each master in order to give an honest representation of what you want for your armies.

I also produced some of the civilian vehicles in the miscellaneous section, that double for military staff cars, and for the shot up wrecks! (It was a lot of fun making the wrecks)

QRF prices and standard produce excellent value models. They occasionally do mislabel things though. The 6"heavy field Howitzer shown in striped camouflage, is actually the 8"Howitzer I made a master of.

If you want to order some Peter Pig and don't mind a bit of a wait, I order thru Caliver Books and get FREE shipping with an order over a certain amount. And I live in the States.
caliverbooks.com

I am currently building stock of the QRF range (though I'm focusing more on moderns), but if you are in the US get in touch and I can help you out.

Mark "Extra Crispy" Severin
Owner, Scale Creep Miniatures
ScaleCreep.com
DeepFriedHappyMice.com

Mal Wright,
I don't soppose you can peruade Geoff to let you an Austin "tilly". Great for all periods of the war, AOP transport for early war, airfield "hack", etc

Mal,

You're the power behind the throne? You should have said so earlier. How about a Fiat 626 my man?

Uh-huh. Pull the other one.

Allen

@Krassian – I too was worried about some of the quality of their castings when I read several reviews. However, I ordered some of the figures anyways and I was pleasantly surprised with the quality and their service/delivery was exceptional! Geoff is wonderful to deal with. Order a sample and go from there – probably your best bet!

Hello Kraussian

The QRF Soviets are servicable and yes, do have large helmets. I bought these minis from the original manufacturer when I first changed to 15mm scale for C20th, sometime around the mid-90's. The picture on the QRF webstore sums them up perfectly.

The P.Pig Soviets are slightly better but lack flair and in most cases bayonets from the rifles.

The P.Pig greatcoated Soviets are very. very nice however.

But, and a big but, my favourites are the latest Late War FOW Soviets released this year. They are excellent. Helmets are a little big in some cases but look right. Many of the minis look like they stepped out of photos. But remember these are the LW not the EarlyMid soviets who are bigger and blockier in sculpt.

I don't have any Command Decision Soviets but my choice, would be FOW LW Soviets first, Command Decision 2nd, Peter Pig greatcoated 3rd, Peter Pig ordinary 4th and QRF joint 4th.

For Germans – go Pig. Nuff said.

Regarding vehicles. I personally find the quality varies tremendously and QRF do try to make them absolutely in scale which means they are generally smaller, with thinner weapons.

Hope that helps

Cheers
Mark

Thanks for all your helpful comments!

@Mal Wright
Wow. One of the greatest things about TMP is that you can actually talk to all these people "behind the scenes"!
I'm not sure of the photos on the QRF website show your new masters, but they look nice!

@JammerMan
Caliver Books sure has an unbeatable offer.
But I've searched for reviews on their service, and came across a number of horror stories.
Guess they're one of those shops where "your mileage may vary" quite literally.

@Extra Crispy
Unfortunately, I live in the Asian part of the "Rest of The World"…

@Jovian1
Judging from his(Geoff's) posts on TMP, I can already see that he would be wonderful to deal with.
Maybe I'll do just that!
After all, infantry are cheap, even with 30% shipping factored in

@Dropship Horizon
Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know!
Too bad my regular shop (Maelstrom games) hasn't stocked up on those Late-War Strelkovy yet.
(I take that you mean item #SU732? They sure look fantastic)

On a side note, I've always liked the look of those flowing greatcoats, so I just may go Peter Pig for them

You're the power behind the throne? You should have said so earlier. How about a Fiat 626 my man?

Hardly the power behind anything. I just made some masters for QRF. There are several not yet released.

The Fiat car I made for them was a commercial type in production right across Europe and widely used as a staff car by most armies. It will fit with any army from Romania to Germany, Norway to Spain, and of course Italy.

The Opel Capitan is usually only found with the German army.

The wrecked vehicles will fit with any tabletop.

One of the things not understood by many wargamers is just how universal some of the artillery was.
Many WW1 guns soldiered on throughout WW2 as they were, or modified for vehicle tow. A lot of the German and Austrian types were handed over to other countries as war reparations and served on with them.
Skoda made guns were in various armies as were those from the Swedish Bofors company.
At the start of the North Africa campaign much of the British artillery was of WW1 types modified with tyres for vehicle tow. Some of the commonwealth armies had almost entirely W#W1 modernised guns.
The standard divisional weapon was still the 4.5" with 18pdrs in support. The 18pdrs replaced by 25pdrs, were usually sent to the 4.5" batteries as anti tank support, because the howitzers didnt have an anti tank round.
Eventually they were all replaced by 25pdrs, but it took time. And while there was ammunition available, many continued to serve in Corps reserve parks.
The little 3.7"mountain gun was widely used by the Indian army in Burma, and the British army soon modernised their old stocks for use there too.
The US Army in the Philippines were still using a 3"caliber version of the British 18pdr when the Japanese invaded.
The older French 155mm types with the US forces were not replaced entirely until 1944 and the French Army used them right through WW2. Indeed US built ones were supplied to the French after the invasion of North Africa.
German WW1 7.7cm field guns were rebored to 75mm and issued to reserve units. They could be seen in use until the end of WW2. The bulk of Italian 75mm were ex German and Austrian types. Some had been modernized, some had not.

So if you shop around in the QRF WW1 lists, you can come up with a lot of artillery for WW2 armies. The dramatically striped weapon on the QRF pages, listed as a 6"Howitzer is mislabelled and is actually the Brtish 8". There are plenty of pictures of them in France during 1940 both in British hands, and being examined by the Germans after capture. The same gun was used in North Africa until easier to tow guns could replace them. The only major difference is to replace the WW1 wheels with large truck tyres.

Diversification of your artillery park can be fun. Check around!

Oh and BTW. My favourite gun is the Italian 149mm shown on the QRF site. It was considered out of date in WW1 but was still used by the Italian army in WW2 during the North African campaign. A big clunky weapon without recoil restriction. It is provided with ramps to absorb recoil as the gun flew backward when fired.

Snap! Kraussin, Maelstrom Games is my regular shop too, (online of course)! Great people to do business with.

Yes I do mean FOW SU732. If in any doubt, buy the SMG Company, SU733, they are bloody magnificent! Enough poses, characters and heroes to play 1-1 skirmish games. And being SMGs – stand alone if for instance you want to buy Peter Pig rifle troops for the main part of your armies.

The Pig Soviet greatcoats are better than the FOW IMO. You can add variety to them by purchasing Pack 95 from the Square Bashing Range and giving them Pitoka cap separate heads (pack 66).

Although P.Pig has recently expanded the range of German greatcoats – IMO they look like it's a drizzly day in Munster rather than Russian Front toe dropping off cold exhibited by the more characterful FOW GE720 Panzergrenadier Platoon (Winter).

Cheers
Mark

QRF does nice clean castings.

After buying a number of the Japanese tanks and trucks, I must say that my experience has been somewhat different.

I tried to love the new-ish late war BF Soviet infantry. They had the same size helmet as the earlier models, but because they're arguably better-proportioned as representation of humans, they wind up looking like they haven't et since mid-1941. Some of the poses are a little odd; some of the individual weapons are a bit… optimistic in size. SU733 is a very good example of both; odd poses, and PPShs that seem to want to grow up into heavy bolters or summat:

link

The ones I'm very pleased with are the assault engineer-sapper troops. With their body armor, they're a little bulkier, so go well with the older BF Soviets--which are needed to fill in a number of the weapons options. The composition of that "battalion" box: now that's another story.

If you have signed up for the FoW Forum, one fellow has posted some remarkable work on the new assault engineer-sappers:

link

I need to work on getting my flesh that nice in 15mm.

But I had bought a lot of the new "shock" riflemen, and now, when I have time, I will be just painting them up to sell. They're just too skinny. I'm stripping Pyl'cyn out of the SMG companies; he's useful. The nurses will be flattened on the anvil; no-one should have to have figures that goofy-looking.

Fortunately, I have plenty of the older riflemen (and the generation before that) to go around.

Maelstrom Games provides excellent service to the US, as well, and they do have SU733 in stock, if one must…

Allen

After buying a number of the Japanese tanks and trucks, I must say that my experience has been somewhat different.

Yes, but that is a line QRF purchased from another maker. Its not an original one of their own.

Kraussian,
What a timely thread; if you don't mind, hit me offline at sgtjj at hotmail.

Jim McC

Gosh, did I miss something while I was away inthe wilds of Visichi? (just down the road from Poltava – I shall have to write a full hoiday report soon).

Might be awkward for him to check and post at the mo

Uh, yes, very. Internet? Where we were didn't even have running water :-)

Welcome back, Geoff!

I've put in an order for a platoon pack of Battlefront infantry, and am about to order some QRF infantry too so that I can compare them first-hand.
(I've mostly ruled out Peter Pig because the shipping would cost too much)

But some of my original questions still stand.

Could I use the "This product was added to our catalog on …" information on the QRF website to determine when the masters were made?

Could I use the "This product was added to our catalog on …" information on the QRF website to determine when the masters were made?

No, it's merely the date they got put into the online system. Better to email me directly with specific queries and I can give you a more precise review.

Geoff

I dont think the date of the model has much to do with quality. Just because a master is old, doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong.
Some older QRF items are little gems.

Just because a master is old, doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong.

Guess you're right, though an old master may mean that the details aren't as sharp as they once were.

To put it bluntly, I guess my problem is that
1. I've been hearing that the quality of QRF miniatures are "hit or miss"
2. The photos on the QRF website are too small, and do not give a good indication on what the miniatures will actually look like

In any case, I've already put in my order for a few packs of various QRF miniatures in the German and Soviet infantry ranges.

I'll be sure to post reviews and good quality photos of them, so that future potential customers will be able to make a more educated decision.

Eh? Wassat?
I'm an old master…are you suggesting I'm not as sharp as I used to be?

Photo's are too small?
TOO SMALL?
Why in my day we only had ink thumbnail sketches and we were quite happy with that!!!
HARRUMPH!!!
DARNED YOUNG PEOPLE THESE DAYS!!!