"Colours is a FoW Event?" Topic

Really?

Colours is a Flames of War event held on the 12th-13th of September in the U.K.

TMP link
link

News to me.

Interesting. No mention of Flames of War on the Colours web site:

link

(but then I didn't expect there to be).

How arrogant of BF. I'm sure the Newbury and Reading Wargames Society would have a thing or two to say about that.

Well, we will be there and don't stock a single Flames of War item… (mind you, we do sell lots of our WW2 range to Flames of War gamers) :-)

Last I recall, there were a whole variety of games. In fact, I seem to recall 15mm WW2 was noticeable by its absence last year :-D (one game?)

Colours is a nice venue, very open and airy, generally good access (for traders) and nice to sit out on the steps and have lunch if it's sunny.

Geoff
quickreactionforce.co.uk

Don't panic!

I expect what was actually meant, was that Colours would be one of the wargames conventions, like many others, which will be HOSTING a "Flames of War" tournament. NOT that Colours was a "Flames of War" event.

That sounds more logical to me, but hey, what do I know?

It's far easier to overreact and start spewing a bunch of negative crap, though…

Par for the course when it comes to BF.

Architectus: That's quite obviously what they should have said.

But what they actually did say makes them look rather arrogant.

Derek H,

I don't think it:

it makes them look rather arrogant

…just that they didn't think to make it sufficiently clear what they actually meant, or make allowances for those people who always seem to get themselves worked up at any mention of Battlefront.

Sad really. Oh, to live in a perfect world where nobody made a genuine mistake.

You don't think mistakes tell you something about the people who make them then?

"Colours is a Flames of War Event" instead of "Colours has a Flames of War Event" is pretty obviously just sloppy use of English.

"Colours has a Flames of War Event"

and is that actually true anyway? Nothing on the Colours web site about an FOW tournament (I assume that's what they mean by "Event").

No, it smacks of arrogance. After all, it was specifically written by the big shots at BF. Yes, mistakes happen -- everyone makes them . . . once. This, however, is apparently a clear case of someone saying something wrong, either deliberately or accidentally, failing to have the public statement reviewed, and then publishing a statement that enhances their reputation while trivializing the actual organizers' role.

Sorry, that's three in a row. So, they must be incredibly ineffective; or, they meant to convey exactly the message they implied.

[edit] Specifically posted on the BF website: link

So why don't one of you moaning here email them and point it out?There is an email contact at the bottom of the announcement.Or will that be too simple and spoil your winging?And before someone says it no I don't play FOW or even own or looked at a copy.

Well said "the badger"!

Much too much uninformed wingeing and moaning in my opinion.

Derek H,

You don't think mistakes tell you something about the people who make them then?

Yes, I do, they prove that everyone makes mistakes, apparently unlike your good self.

Mike Snorbens,

Nothing on the Colours web site about an FOW tournament ( I assume that's what they mean by "Event" ) .

When I last looked at the site, ( link ) , there was no information about ANY games, traders or tournaments, no doubt because the organisers are wisely waiting until everything has been confirmed before putting anything on their site. By your thought process however, we must therefore deduce that this is a deliberate attempt to mislead…. obviously it is not! Colours is a fine event in an excellent venue and which has always been very well run, and in my considered opinion, successful for all concerned

jizbrand,

I note that you're based in Kansas. I hope that when you make the trip over to Colours in September, the lack of, or presence of a "Flames of War" tournament won't offend you too much?

You assume, I think, that I have an axe to grind with Flames of War. I don't. I have an axe to grind with bad behavior.

I think you also assume that I won't be at Colours in September. In fact, I will not (in my plan for next year, though, in conjunction with family business). It is, however, irrelevent. I would have raised the same objection had the event been in Kansas or New Zealand. The event isn't the issue; the behavior is.

When I last looked at the site there was no information about ANY games, traders or tournaments

I think, judging from previous years, we're pretty lucky if the Colours website has any information about the event at all, even up to the day of the show.

"So why don't one of you moaning here email them and point it out?There is an email contact at the bottom of the announcement."

Because that "e-mai" (sic) point of contact is the UK point of contact, not the Battlefront point of contact.

Attention to detail, folks.

And no, I'm not going, either. The only time I've been was when it was decided the world would be safer if no planes flew for six days, and I was stuck in the UK an extra week. It was in the Hexagon then: hot, noisy, disorganized, and crowded. I understand the racecourse is a considerable improvement, but I'm not likely to judge that anytime soon.

Allen

jizbrand,

I think you also assume that I won't be at Colours in September.

Wrong again I'm afraid. My exact words were:

I hope that when you make the trip over to Colours in September, the lack of, or presence of a "Flames of War" tournament won't offend you too much?

Does that read as if I'm expecting you NOT to come? Although I note that you're not.

Perhaps you just "read something that wasn't there". Rather like the postings on this site that are attributing all manner of unacceptable behaviour and hidden intention, to what was, most undeniably a rather poor and ambiguous use of English.

You assume, I think, that I have an axe to grind with Flames of War.

No I don't. I didn't say anything of the sort. Looks like another example of imagining something that isn't there.

As to your comment about bad behaviour. As far as I'm concerned, Battlefront made an extremely poor use of English. It happens. But its hardly a sign of attempted WW2 wargaming domination… at least I hope not!

And as for me, I suppose I have an axe to grind against anyone who automatically assumes and/or, looks for the worst in everything. There seems to be a lot of it about these days, but fortunately there are a few more moderate opinions too.

Incidentally, have you contacted Battlefront to explain the misunderstanding and concern that said poor use of English has apparently caused a few people? Who knows… they might apologise humbly for their inadvertent mistake and the obvious concern and upset that it has caused?

For heaven's sake, tell them how much their statement has apparently upset you and give them a chance to put right their mistake instead of just moaning on about it.

Architectus – what is 'uninformed wingeing' about commenting on an error? The FOW site says 'Colours is a Flames Of War event'. It is not. It is an event at which there may or may not be a FOW tournament.
Unless you know the person who made the error, you have no more idea than the rest of us whether it was made in good faith or not. Whatever the intention however, the impression given, to me and many more by the look of it, is decidedly one of arrogance.

"When I last looked at the site, ( link ) , there was no information about ANY games, traders or tournaments, no doubt because the organisers are wisely waiting until everything has been confirmed before putting anything on their site."

Precisely. So anyone reading the FOW site ( and not being aware of what Colours actually is ) will ( incorrectly ) assume that Colours is a "Flames of War event" – there being no evidence to the contrary.

The fact that the Newbury and Reading club have not put up any detail on the Colours site inadvertently plays into BF's hands with their gross misrepresentation of the facts – to whit that Colours is NOT a "Flames of War event".

aecurtis,

"So why don't one of you moaning here email them and point it out?There is an email contact at the bottom of the announcement."

Because that "e-mai" (sic) point of contact is the UK point of contact, not the Battlefront point of contact.

Attention to detail, folks.

If you'd then entered Flames of War in your search engine, you would have found the Flames of War website: flamesofwar.com, and after a few more seconds of looking you would have found:

Editor@battlefront.co.nz

I cannot be sure obviously if this is precisely the correct e-mail address, but it IS "Flames of War" and it IS in New Zealand so its a start.

As for the Hexagon venue, I went their once and like you, was not impressed. Ideal for snooker tournaments etc., but not a wargames event. Obviously that was why the event organisers decided to move the event elsewhere. The Newbury racecourse venue is much much better. Its airy and light with plenty of space. So, if you do get "trapped" over here again, its worth a second try.

Does that read as if I'm expecting you NOT to come?

You're quite correct; I interpreted that as snide. I apologize for being defensive about it.

But not for taking BF to task.

Incidentally, have you contacted Battlefront to explain…

As a matter of fact, I have. If I get a response, I'll be sure to post it here.

Obviously that was why the event organisers decided to move the event elsewhere.

Don't go reading information into something that wasn't there ;-) I understand there were other factors involved

I said on here was it obviously really means: TMP link

Gwydion,

what is 'uninformed wingeing' about commenting on an error?

My fault, I probably wasn't clear enough. My reference to "uninformed wingeing" was that there is an unfortunate tendency for some people to assume the worst without knowing the facts. I for my part, am equally guilty… I assume the BEST, without knowing the facts. I know which attitude to life I prefer…

Unless you know the person who made the error, you have no more idea than the rest of us whether it was made in good faith or not. Whatever the intention however, the impression given, to me and many more by the look of it, is decidedly one of arrogance.

Quite right. I don't know the person who made the error. Like you, I'm expressing MY opinion.

However my point is, and was, that its surely better to have an open mind, and give whoever DID make the error the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to put it right, than jump on the bandwagon of automatically assuming the worst.

Still a fairly major cock-up though :-)

…its surely better to have an open mind, and give whoever DID make the error the benefit of the doubt…

Unfortunately, there isn't really a good side to this. If it was an just error, it's a pretty big one to make, claiming that a local wargames society event is your own. That press release has appeared in serval places, so far without comment or retraction and (whatever the basis behind it) it is blatantly advertising Colours as a Flames of War event, which it isn't.

And if it wasn't a simple error… well.

GeoffQRF,

My mistake.

You see folks, draw someone's attention to an error and chances are most people will apologise.

As far as Colours is concerned, I don't much care what were the reasons for moving from the Hexagon. In my opinion it was a definite, definite improvement.

And I shall be there again this year! And in between spending money, taking periodic breaks to sit outside on the balcony and enjoy a nice cold beer!

In my opinion it was a definite, definite improvement.

Very much so.

And in between spending money, taking periodic breaks to sit outside on the balcony and enjoy a nice cold beer!

I intend to be there too (be interesting to see where they put us this year) so do drop by and say hello

GeoffQRF,

I'll do that. I grabbed one of your catalogues when I was at Bovington this year, but pressure of work prevented me from getting back to your stand. Hopefully I'll have better luck at Colours… if not, I'll be at Warfare as well!

"I cannot be sure obviously if this is precisely the correct e-mail address, but it IS "Flames of War" and it IS in New Zealand so its a start."

It is. I've used it before to communicate with Wayne. But that is *not* the "email contact at the bottom of the announcement" to which you directed those "wingeing" (sic).

Allen

Architectus – fair enough – quite right re opinions, and I am most decidedly in favour of you having the right to express yours, and to be an optimist .
Guy

How do you spell 'wingeing'? Its not in the Concise Oxford English of 1975

It still stinks of arrogance.

It is very poorly worded.

It is arrogance if you know about it, and still don't correct it. :-)

At least, I'm hoping it is just very poorly worded.

How do you spell 'wingeing'? Its not in the Concise Oxford English of 1975

Bet it is if you don't drop your 'h's. ;-)
Try whingeing: link

But that is not the "email contact at the bottom of the announcement" to which you directed those "wingeing" (sic)

I personally didn't advise anyone going to the "e-mail contact at the bottom of the announcement".

In fact I was trying to point people in what I thought MIGHT have been the right direction, so that they could deal with the problem instead of just whinging about it.

It mystified me that there were so many posters apparently sufficiently upset to vehemently complain on this forum and yet, it appeared when they determined the e-mail address on the announcement was not the right one, (although I would hope that a complaint directed there WOULD have been passed on eventually), their attitude seemed to be, "Oh dear, its the wrong e-mail address. I won't bother to find the right one, but I'll just carry on complaining all the same, and I'll complain about it being the 'wrong' e-mail address too while I'm at it too".

Clearly SOME people were sufficiently upset to have a good communal moan, or jump on the bandwagon of others, but were not upset enough to try to deal with the supposed issue "head-on"?

As for my SUPPOSEDLY incorrect spelling of "whinging", my fault entirely. It was of course a fiendish plot on my part to completely undermine the English language, to destroy the total fabric of the wargames world, and to bring WW2 wargaming into disrepute.

In fact, if anyone chooses to consult:

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/winge

they will find that "wingeing" IS in fact, ONE of the correct spellings for the word in question. And to save anyone the trouble of looking for themselves:

VERB.
to winge (third-person singular simple present winges, present participle wingeing or winging, simple past and past participle winged)

So there you go, one person's whinging is another person's wingeing.

Its not in the Concise Oxford English of 1975

Sorry didn't realise that we could only use one dictionary to check spelling on the site? My mistake.

And back to the point, as GeoffQRF implied, the issue is surely one of intent. Presumably, once Battlefront realise the deep upset that they have caused certain delicate and easily offended souls, they will humbly apologise for their inadvertent error? They might even send everyone whose sensibilities have been so upset, a free "Flames of War" product…? Now come on, lets get real about all this!

On the other hand they might just consider the complainants to be a bunch of whinging, winging, or, dare I say it, wingeing, "poms".

Still look on the good side, its generated some useful publicity for Colours. And I for one, shall be there, looking out for the banners… "Flames of War takes over Colours", "First step in wargames world domination", "Today Colours… tomorrow Salute".

I mean, for heaven's sake….

…as GeoffQRF implied, the issue is surely one of intent

I think I said that it's a cock-up at best, and I don't want to think what it might be at the other end of the scale. Intent just turns it from a rather major blunder into something far less tasteful. Mistakes happen, it's how we deal with them afterwards that's important. This has been up a while now…

On the other hand they might just consider the complainants to be a bunch of whinging, winging, or, dare I say it, wingeing, "poms".

I would hope they would make a fairly public apology to the Newbury and Reading Wargamers Society for mistakenly advertising that this was an event [being a convention-type event…] put on by Flames of War.

At this time, there is no indication that any sort of FoW competition is even taking place. As I said, I believe there was a single 15mm WW2 game there last year.

Still look on the good side, its generated some useful publicity for Colours

Probably the only good side; wargames shows in the UK are rarely advertised well.

However a little general publicity to all the other competitions (which last year apparently included Ancients, Renaissance, Medieval, Napoleonic and ACW), the one and a half floors of traders (in all periods and scales, including us!) and the medieval reenactors who do such a wonderful job at entertaining my daughter by trying to beat each other with swords and axes, would not go amiss :-)

Colours is in a bright and airy venue, with a lovely view over the racecourse. If the weather holds out, it's great to sit outside and have a cuppa with your lunch.

While it is a bit out of the way, it's easy to get there by car, parking is free and Newbury railway station is only 1/2 mile away. It takes place over 2 days, and the £6.00 GBP entry allows entrance on both show days. There is, apparently, a family discount too.

There are no cash machines at the Racecourse, so bring money (credit cards are willingly grabbed) and food and drink is available. I think they even have a bar (?)

To be fair to BF (and they have provided me with a decent living for the last four years)I think it is just very poor use of English coupled with a GW mindset and terminology!

I doubt very much whether there was any serious intent to imply that Colours is solely a FOW event or run by BF.

If a FOW tournament is run at Colours then I doubt whether it will be well attended because of the hugely popular FOW tournament being held the same weekend.

OMG I don't believe it! I have just defended BF! Please don't hold it against me!

Roland
staffordgames.co.uk

I'm starting to wonder if they have two separate events mixed up

Architectus – 'Sorry didn't realise that we could only use one dictionary to check spelling on the site? My mistake.'
For goodness sake – don't be so touchy

How do you spell 'wingeing'? Its not in the Concise Oxford English of 1975

As you said re Jizbrand 'Does that read as if I'm….'?

I suddenly realised I didn't know how to spell 'wingeing/whinging/whingeing' so I looked it up in the latest dictionary I possess – and it wasn't there. It was meant to be a gently lighthearted piece of self deprecation.
I am pretty anal about spelling for me, but I don't give a stuff about how you spell things- lighten up.

I got it Gwydion :-)

In answer to the question of a Flames of War event [being a competition type of event], I emailed the Colours organisers and asked:

"Yes there is but it is organized by the Spiky Club "

(Whoever the 'Spiky Club' may be…)

Thanks Geoff, thought so
Actually, its not in there with or without an 'H'. I think it was regarded a 'colonial' word in those days – and thus ignored.
PS
re the other thread:
You an LLB then?
Guy

Actually, its not in there with or without an 'H'. I think it was regarded a 'colonial' word in those days – and thus ignored.

That's interesting, as the online sources seem to indicate:

whinge (hwnj, wnj)
intr.v. whinged, whing·ing, whing·es Chiefly British

To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

[Dialectal alteration of Middle English whinsen, from Old English hwinsian

You an LLB then?

Sort of. LPC ( link )

By October, fingers crossed, LLM

Good luck,. I started out with an LLB but couldn't stand practice and bailed out many years ago. You have my undying admiration doing it this way.

I did it the hard way, 18 years as a graphic designer then went back to do my GDL at the ripe old age of 44 by distance learning while still working, keeping a young family* (and running a wargames company). Completed the LPC in June and just submitted final drafts for the LLM (one in redundancy, one on copyrgiht ownership).

You see the world slightly differently at this age. Much more aware of the grey and fuzzy edges. Now all I nweed to do is get that training contract sorted…

*New baby was born 2 weeks before my GDL exams… ok, so I didn't say I was good with timing!

Whinge is in the Oxford mini dictionary 1997 if that helps smooth troubled waters.

Cheers BB my waters are very smooth thanks
Guy

…not even going to go there…

As Paul Harvey would have said . . . and now for the rest of the story.

I did indeed write to Battlefront about this subject. They sent a response Sunday evening, and I quote:

Greetings John,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding Colours, I've ammended this on the webiste. Thank you for bring it to my attention.

Kind regards,

Blake Coster
Wed Assistant
Battlefront Miniatures Ltd

And it has indeed been corrected on their website. So, an error with corrective action. Sloppy perhaps, but responsive nonetheless.

And suddenly all the moaning whingers are silent.