"Cancon total dud." Topic

Well its been and gone for another year. True to form this years was even worse than the last.

There was only a small range of figures for sale. Kudos to shadowforge here for at having their entire range with them and no kudos for eureka that turned up with next to nothing. (If we have to tell Nic what we want before he will bring it why bother? Its easier just to order off their website and I want to impulse buy at a con not collect an order.) Maidenhead miniatures had some very nice painted cavewomen on display and for sale that were the most impressive looking figs there. Their giant bird cavalry is stunning.

To top it all off there was no real great discounts to be seen except millisims had some packs of 28mm battlefront GI's going for a fiver a pack.

There was a small range of games being played with some impressive paint jobs but they were few and far between with 'orange' space marines painted by dyslexic 12 year olds out in force

In the end I bought one mini (as in a single figure!) and a computer game that didnt have the manual in it. (pathetic really isnt it that I couldnt spend money like water at a con.)

The only saving grace was our anual nerd spotting comp. I came second (that being the first looser.) with my choice of a tragic aging goth queen. My little bro who has no time for minis had a great time spotting nerds (he had more fun at CANCON than I did.) He also won the comp when he found a guy wearing spured boots with rhinestones set into the points of the spurs. Our neutral judge awarded him first prize on the spot. (If that was you in the boots seek fashion help NOW!) The other honorable mention was a chap with carrot red hair a tartan cap with pom pom and tartan pants with platform shoes.

End result the little bro won alot of booze purchased by everyone else that went in the nerd spotting comp. We went home drank it and played drunken Junta that was 10 times more fun that what was to be found at Cancon.

Lets hope this abortion of a con is kulled from existence soon and something worthy takes its place.

"The worst day I ever had at a wargaming convention is better than the best day I ever had at work."

-Martin Luther

Martin was kidding himself John. They pay you to be at work.

I think he was talking about fishing, but the principle remains the same. "Here I stand. I can only roll some dice."

Scurvy!

Doesn't anything make you happy?! : )

But I must agree. Every year I promise that I won't go to the next Cancon. Then I think that it can't be as bad as the last. Then I go and of course regret it.......

15 years ago it was worth going to.

Hey scurv'

Nic's car got written off so he's lucky to have got to cancon at all, as well as bring up some figs. I'm the gamer that offered to drive him up and back, and there's only so much lead that can be crammed into a commodore. People have been buying less anyhow, regardless of how much stuff is brought up. It ain't easy. Hey, how cool was that Mexican-American War demo game? ;-)

that mex/american game did look good.

I guess Nic's car dieing lets him off the hook. Nics new Aussies in Timor looked pretty neat too. I just wish he had decided some Aztecs, Pirates or his sci fi stuff would of been a profitable and worthy passanger in your car.

Dear Scurvy and Great White Zulu,

I must disagree with most of your comments, when viewed from my perspective.

Firstly, I didn't see the Zulu there, we had samples we brought to show him, but couldn't find him anywhere. Sorry we missed you, and last year from memory. Which day were you there?

To Scurvys points: The Shadowforge stand looked tremdous, and congratulations to Neil and Sue for taking away the Cancon Best Trade Stand Trophy.

Apologies for not being able to take all our range with us, we did have 18mm Fantasy (three races), 18mm Napoleonics (11 different nationalities), 15mm ancients (six nationalities), 28mm Civilians (six different series), 28mm AWI, 28mm F&I, 28mm Science Fiction (ten different series, 28mm WW1, 28mm Russo-Turkish War, 28mm Greeks C1890, 6mm Franco Prussians,18mm Mexican-American War and 28mm Modern Australians and their enemies, as well as our latest catalogue and I'm sorry to hear that nothing out of all of the above interested you. The two ranges that we didn't bring out of the three you mention would have been brought if we had known you were interested, but from comments written by you in a separate thread some months ago where you stated that our prices are too high, we didn't think you were going to buy anything anyway.

I am wondering why you would expect to find "great discounts" at a show? The traders in general have had to travel some distance, pay staff wages, accomadation bills, transport bills and hire of stall bills, before they have sold anything. Why then would they begin discounting?

Another puzzle to me is your view of a "nerd". I have no problem with what anyone wears at Cancon, and I love the fact that folk are happy to express themselves in a sociable atmosphere, generally free of critiscism. A shame that some folk seem threatened by this. Any chance of you posting a photo of you and your brother so that the rest of us know what a "nerd" doesn't look like?

Finally I would like to ask, what game you put on at Cancon and what you propose to do to improve the convention? I believe Tim Sleigh and his helpers do a fine job of what is really a thankless task. I say well done, until of course you run a much better convention yourself.

Hopefully this will generate a debate as to what a convention should be, and that you, Scurvy, will take these ideas and turn them into a great Australian Game Event.

Sorry to take up so much room on this thread, but I do feel it is neccessary.

Best wishes

Nic Robson EUREKA MINIATURES

Well Scurvy, I thought there was a marked improvement at CANCON this year. There was a more consistant spread of good looking demo games (at last) - and a better selection of trade stands (nice to see Essex Miniatures back after a year's absence).

It seems your comments regarding Eureka Miniatures were ill-informed and (as usual) you have launched one of your tirades without being fully aware of all the facts. But what really got to me were your attacks on the painting efforts of "dyslexic 12 year olds" and the appearances of nerds. You and your brother are free to think what you like of course - but the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer this rubbish. Everyone has to start somewhere Scurvy, and dyslexic or not, at least the 12 year olds were trying to paint stuff and play games. Did you put on a game at CANCON? Were your figures well painted at 12? And as for the nerd spotting comp. Sure, there were lots of nerds at CANCON, it's a Games Convention for *#$%! sake!!!! Frankly I found your line about "tragic aging goth queen" highly offensive. Live and let live mate. Personally I couldn't care less what someone chooses to wear at a games convention, so long as they remember to use some soap and deoderant before they turn up! During your spotting game did you remember to check in the mirror? A posting name like Scurvy Bartella III, and you're trying to convince us you're not a nerd? Nic Robson is spot on. I look forward to you complying with his suggestion of a photo. This nerd, for one, can't wait to see how cool you look.

People can wear what they want to a convention, as long as it isn't offensive. I stand out in a crowd as a nerd and I don't care.

I thought trader's stands at conventions were for them to show off their latest and greatest goodies, not slash their financial wrists with massive discounts while attempting to cover their costs. The big discounts are in the second hand and out of production stuff.

Finally, the prices at Eureka Miniatures are quite reasonable and I will continue to purchase figures from Nic, as I have done for past fifteen years or so. The fact that he sells figures in singles rather than fixed packs is a big plus, as is his excellent customer service.

Nic/John

In no way was I suggesting that I have a problem with you or the other traders at Cancon. In fact, I have been to the last 15 Cancons not including the one just past. At most I have spent large amounts of money!

It just seems to me that what I am looking for in the hobby at the moment is best served in other ways. Perhaps I am just jaded with the convention scene.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear that I wasn't there this year although I did base my comment on recent experiences. My inability to attend was due to family commitments at short notice. Last year I was unable to say hello due to the continual scrum around your stand.

By the way, thankyou for the samples. I expect to place a large order for your excellent dwarves shortly!

I should probably nuke a few of these posts, but they're in Australian, which makes them charming and a little odd rather than hugely offensive (to me). :-)

But...let's back off from the name calling, OK?

Yeah, Bill. I need to know who St. Kilda is.

Did you notice how Australians fall off the wagon speling and grammer-wise when they converse among themselves? :^)

Upon further reflection, the name-calling posts have been nuked. ALL of them.

bad call mr Editor as the bloke who started this flame has done just that by insulting a good bloke who works hard.

must have missed the St Kilda one during the night but fyi John the OFM last weekend the 18th, a cowardly mongrel came up behind a rtired Australian cricket icon and king hit him, knocking him to the ground in such a way that his head hit he ground so as to cause massive head injuris. his family pulled the plug on life support 24 hours later. There has been a massive out pouring of grief and outrage that this toerag intially only copped an assult charge, now upgraded to manslaughter and is wandering the streets on bail. the fact is he was already on bail for another assult and will most likely have the justice system fawn all over him because he comes from a refugee background and has had a hard life so far, but that doesn't excuse murdeing a bloke the way he did. the good thing is that when he gets to jail he will probably cop a bashing himself from the real crims as th bloke he killed was a quintessential Australian, as big as Steve Irwin

Oh come on now! I can't believe the holier-than-thou responses to Scurvy's description of some Cancon participants...are you people so wrapped up in political correctness that you can no longer enjoy or appreciate the diverseness and unique attributes that simply make us human? Being amused by our fellow gamers, either through wit, humor, intelligence or just plain strange behavior and dress is why a lot of us go to these things in the first place. So what if Scurvy and his brother were holding a private competition to find the most unusual person at the Con? No nerds were harmed in the recitation of this event. And exactly what IS a nerd, anyway? I'd submit that anyone who games falls into that category, including myself, and I cherish my nerd status unlike some of you who seem to crave a more conventional label. PC kills, my friends. Be who you are and don't give a toss what the world at large says about it. (Gee, Scurvy says those guys are nerds, so he must think I'm one too, and I can't stand that thought so I'll lash out.) Pffffft!

A rose is a rose is a rose.

Get over it.

[bad call mr Editor as the bloke who started this flame has done just that by insulting a good bloke who works hard.]

It's an insult to observe that a company showed up at a convention with less goods than usual? I don't think so. And in fact, Nic admits they weren't able to bring their entire range with them this time.

[...but fyi John the OFM last weekend the 18th...]

Sad story, but how does it fit in to this topic???

And in a post I'm going to delete in a second (more name-calling), Simon writes:

[and another thing mr editor why not just delete the whole thing if u r bing PC]

Why should I delete other people's posts? They haven't done any name-calling.

Dear All,

Thank you for your defence of us and I do believe the editor has made the right decision, this has all gotten (sic) a little out of hand.

I don't think PC is the issue here, Scurvy is free to think what he likes. Where I object is to the offending of individuals by his name calling (even though he didn't target them by name,the physical description of them is enough for us to recognise them) . Do what you like in private, but DO NOT publish these thoughts on the net.

What we have missed though is my request for Scurvy, and the other detractors of Cancon, to please tell us what they wanted to see at the show and how they are going to help the organisers to correct these deficiencies?

Maybe we should start a separate thread on the Australian Forum as to "How to improve the Show Scene?"

Best wishes,

Nic

Gosh Bill, I hope you didn't nuke anything interesting from Scurvy. I've just come back on-line from over-night in Oz and it looks like I've missed a few things! I shall content myself with a response to Pirate Wench.
I don't consider myself much different from you Pirate Wench. Certainly not "Holier-than-thou". My friends and I are just as capable of rolling our eyes and having a giggle at someone else's expense when we see things at conventions like CANCON. Just like you and Scurvy seemed to do. We might re-live those moments down the pub or in the hotel bar that evening and have another good laugh. But the important point is that it's just between ourselves and nobody gets hurt. You said yourself - "So what if Scurvy and his brother were holding a private competition to find the most unusual person at the Con?" - and I'd agree with you - IF he'd kept it PRIVATE. What I object to is Scurvy airing his rampant superiority complex and posting these cheap shots on TMP because he wants everyone to know how 'funny' and 'clever' he and his brother are. I don't care if you think I'm "wrapped up in political correctness" - are you seriously trying to tell me that a phrase like "dyslexic 12 year olds" is acceptable. (Do you have any experience of dyslexia?!) And if the "tragic aging goth queen" has had the misfortune to read Scurvy's post and identify herself (and I don't remember seeing many goths at CANCON) then do you think she's feeling really good about herself at the moment?
And finally you write "Gee, Scurvy says those guys are nerds, so he must think I'm one too, and I can't stand that thought so I'll lash out". A particularly woeful piece of amateur psychology Pirate Wench. I don't feel in the least bit threatened by Scurvy's nerd attack. I just think he's a rude!

Ah...haaa... a friend (and fellow CANCON attendee) has just pointed out to me the blatantly bleeding obvious that the "goth queen" is of course of the male gender - not a female! Sorry Scurvy, that barb was a bit too subtle for me! (My gender confusion makes no diference to the points made above though)

Actually, Cambyses, I AM dyslexic (since you asked), I even have an "unusual" configuration on my keyboard to help me type faster, but I took no offense at Scurvy's comments.

I did not attend CANCON this year, unfortunately, since I have been in the states since 23 Jan, but the last time I went to one they handed out pointed Star Trek-ish ears to wear with the price of admission. How wonderfully nerdy is that? But maybe we shouldn't mention the ears because someone might've worn them causing other people to laugh and talk about it on a web site, and we certainly can't have that, can we? Well I wore mine, and my friends and I laughed at ourselves and everyone else dorky enough to do the same. But let's not mention it because its not status quo or PC and that's BAD.

You're right about Scurvy...he IS a rude one. He writes on this web site just like he would speak if he were down at the pub (well, minus some 4-letter language) because he's committed the sin of assuming that the people here are mates, at least in the world of gaming and minis. As for the "tragic aging goth queen" comment...he was talking about a person I know who would describe themselves with those exact words and then launch into a tirade about the upcoming Mardi Gras festivities while buying the next round of drinks. And queens like to be addressed as "she", in case you were wondering. I don't think I know the bloke with rhinestone boots, but good on him for standing out so spectacularly in the midst of so many.

So a bad review was written about CANCON and now a lot of people seem to have their knickers in a twist. If you disagree then simply start another thread saying how great you think it was.

Much more of this and I WILL turn the car around!

[Gosh Bill, I hope you didn't nuke anything interesting from Scurvy.]

Scurvy is always interesting. But alas, 2 of Scurvy's post are nuked (and 3 of Simon's). In a few weeks, I should be able to apply a little more finesse, but at the moment it's nuke or nothing...

Errr... Pirate Wench - not sure what you're trying to say with the example of the Star Trek ears (Been to all the recent CANCONS and I never got any - boo, hiss!). Who but the most deranged PC Nazi is going to object to someone poking a bit of fun (either on or off the internet) at someone for wearing pointy ears? (I suppose some Vulcan might file a racial harrassment charge?)

I just think there's a big (and obvious) difference between that, and calling someone a "dyslexic 12 year old" or "a tragic aging goth queen" - irrespective of what the individual on the receiving end might think. I'm very glad that you and the Goth Queen are comfortable with all this, but that doesn't necessarily make Scurvy's out-bursts anymore acceptable. These things are all relative aren't they? One of the queens I know hates been referred to as "she" and gets very angry with other Gays for using it because he thinks it panders to the worst type of media driven stereotyping of Gay people.

I though Scurvy's posting on CANCON was more of a hatchet job than a review - but I'm ahead of you. You'll find I've already tried to start a more constructive CANCON discussion on another thread.

Hey Cambyses

There IS a photo of Scurvy on TMP, or at least one that purports to be of him. It's at TMP link

Over to you.

Nice one taekwondo!

Well Scurvy I must confess, no one is going to mistake you for a nerd! The picture reminds me of some of those early punk album covers - although those neat grey slacks on your friend don't quite match up to the image of "the fanatic"! The leather jacket looks good on you, and I'm especially impressed that Panzer the Dog appears to be finished in post '43 dunkel gelb! Excellent stuff! :)

At least you have a sense of humour Cambyses (Pirate Wench and Simon Ford need to lighten up a little). But seriously, don't you think it's time to forgive, and lighten up a little on Scurvy? (Not that he's bothered I suspect)

once more into the breach.

This time we wont use the W word to describe Simon and we should be safe from the nuclear fires.

To address Nics post once again.

Firstly I have to my knowledge never stated Eurekas prices were too high. I seem to recall giving many a good report on eurekas figs and recommending them on more than a few occasions. (last one was a thumbs up for your MkII battlesuits) Pity you misread the post and as a result lost a sure sale Nic.

Now onto you statement that you had 10 different series of sci fi figs there. I stood at your booth saw there was no sci fi on display. Then I looked through the catalouge and pointed out 4 or 5 sci fi lines all which you said you didnt have. I then asked you what sci fi figs you did have. You failed to produce a single sci fi fig from the hoard you had stashed under the table. You may of mentioned some but with your head under the table talking none too loudly in a noisy hall I didnt hear it. (the only thing I did hear you say was victorian personalities which have nothing to do with sci fi.)

Another point worth a mention is the fact even if you did have your wheels you wouldnt of taken all your figs. You stated such yourself explaining that your trying to educate people to ask you beforehand to let you know what to bring up. (though as I experienced that doesnt work as you knew what I wanted and didnt bring it anyway.)

Some ideas that might be worthwhile taking a look at here is

1: Put all your figs on display that way we dont have to ask and you dont have to hunt through each time. We call this product placement. Its important. Goods hidden away out of sight will sell and awful lot less than figs on display.

2: Communicate clearly, talking with your head out of sight under a table is not a good method of passing on information. I found it unprofessional and somewhat rude and frustrating.

3: Perhaps taking a smaller amount of each range will allow you to show off more of your figs. and make more sales which is the whole point of going in the first place isnt it?

4: Cater for the impulse buyer. I can order your figs anytime off the net and they will be in my letterbox in no time at all. What is the point in going to Cancon to pick up an order? Its easier to just get it via the post.

Also worth remembering is the fact many people take a wad of loot to spend at the con on things they can take home that day. Whats the point in spending con money on stuff that can be ordered anytime. The only time I have ever pre paid for figs at a con that were posted afterward was with castaway arts gladiators. The reason being I thought the extra effort Mr Webb put into his customer service and friendly attitude was worth my business even if I did have to wait a few days to get the figs. (and I also like to support our local guys yourself included.)

As for the expectation of great discounts at shows. Why shouldnt I. EVERY con I have been to has had a dog box or 3 full of cut price minis. This year there was only one box at the millisims stall with about half a dozen packs of GI's in it.

I dont see where you got the idea that YOU had to discount. I have never seen you sell discounted figs and I wasnt expecting that to change this year. It was good to see Millisims managed to put ALL their GW stuff at 20% off though. (not to mention the deals on software and RPG books they were doing also.) So I guess some traders CAN offer a good deal some cant. Thats life.

As for the nerd thing having explained it twice now Im really quite over it. If you dont like it then deal with it cus its on again next year. (that is if we bother to turn up at all.) I think if I had used the term fashion victim there would of been none of the vitrol. We use the term nerd cus a non gaming friend of mine turned up to give me a lift home one year and refering to the larson cartoon 'the great nerd drive of 76' simpily stated "Hows the nerd hearding going?" giving birth to the nickname of "the nerd herd" to describe CANCON.

Now just to state one thing. Some people dress up outlandishly for a convention. (with the full intention of creating a stir.) When is the last time you saw spured boots with rhinestones set in the spurs while shopping at woolworths Nic?

I like the fact people do it and full style points to them all. I used to have a 2 foot tall green mohawk so i can appreciate where they are comming from. I also like having a small wager on who has pulled off the worst insults to fashion each year.

I think some people got offended with this cus they resemble the more steriotypical nerd and thought I was refering to them and their ilk. Well sorry guys you didnt even get a mention. Though if your uncomfortable and insecure in the way people view you do something about it dont moan at me. I dont care.

I should also mention I have over heard thousands of bitchy comments from gamers about other gamers at cons none of them subtle. Its a fact of convention life. Deal with it.

Now onto your final thought about the fact I should start my own con or something.

Lets look at this another way.

If your unsatisfied with an automobile should you produce your own before you have the right to say its a lemon? I didnt think so either.

Let me fill you in on how it works.

Tim and his minions promote their con with traders ect then put on the con and collect our money

You and the other traders turn up with lots of figs for sale and collect our money

I and everyone else turns up and spends money.

together this hopefully combines to form a good convention.

I held up my side of the deal. You on the other hand as far as my experience went let your side down and Tim let his side down too. (In regard to Tim. There was no clear signage designating what was a demo game, there was few traders, next to no RPG's being played, limited minis games being played ect ect there are alot more things I could add to this list but that will do for an example.)

As to what a good convention is think back to when they had the con at Bruce CIT. We had troll ball, the SCA guys n gals tons of RPG's heaps of different wargames and better food for sale. Those were great times for Cancon and long before Tim and his lads took the helm. Since they had it gets worse each year.

To sum up I think you were better off with one line about your stall (which in itself was mearly a note on your lack of range.) in a post about an entire con insted of this. Now you have a great big post all about you and your company and none of it really flattering. Then to boot loosing a customer that has spent up at your stall every year. (I will be spending my money on getting the rest of my warmachine Khaldor army insted of spending on local product for the near future.)

Such is life.

As for the other how dare you not be PC posters.

Cry me a river boys

I agree with Scurvy's last comment: If you are not directly mentioned, why even bother to defend someone who might even be a fabrication of Scurvy's twisted and FUN sense of humour?

Why jump into a non-existent fight?

Get over yerselves, really.

Political Correctness is a bit of a pose, nowadays, and some times it's just being too afraid of calling things waht they are.

First Scurvy's post was fun and non-insulting, accepat that fact. It was all in fun and ranting away at an unsatisfactory experience with an abundance of black humour... You, the "offended" parties-and this does not include Nic, who may have misread Scurvy--made this thread the name calling-debacle it turned into.

Think about it next time you feel "offended" or "righteous enough" to point someone the "error of his ways".

Ok, enough is enough! How about we settle all this palarva using the mano el mano style. Full contact knock down rules. Last one standing wins. That'll sort out the men from the nerds ;-)

Oh sorry - my mistake Javier - so it was all just a harmless laugh and probably a figment of Scurvy's imagination anyway? And apparently it's all MY fault for having an opinion. How insensitive of me! 'Freedom' of debate is a funny thing to some people. Scurvy can be "offended" and feel "righteous enough" about aspects of CANCON, but I'm not allowed to feel "offended" and "righteous enough" about what Scurvy says? I'm supposed to "get over it" and keep my mouth shut. I'm entitled to my opinion - even if you think I'm some sort of PC poser. Let me ask you a hypothetical question Javier. If you had a teenage son playing a game at CANCON and Scurvy stood next to the table pointing and laughing at his figures saying "these have been painted by a dyslexic 12 year old" - what would you do? Laugh it off as "fun and non-insulting"? Pat him on the back and buy him a beer (Scurvy that is - not your 'son'!)

Needless to say Scurvy, I'm not suggesting you'd ever do such a thing. I'll say it again - I've no problem with your nerd competition - I was unhappy with some of your more colourful phrases. You and you allies can represent me as some PC tosser if you like (actually, many aspects of PC make me feel uncomfortable), but in my experience the 'PC is an infringement of my freedom of speech' defence is often used as a crude device to distract from the fact that the perpetrator is simply being rude and insensitive. And that's the bottom line. I thought you were being impolite.

Well maybe Perseus is right - I should lighten up a little. I stand by my opinion and my right to express that if I think someone has crossed a line. We all go too far sometimes. I've been re-reading my posts of yesterday and my line about Scurvy having a "rampant superiority complex" was over the top and I'm not happy I said it. I take that back Scurvy, with an un-reserved apology to you.

P.S. Any idea where can I get a Labrador in Panzer grey?

Oh no - I hope 'Panzer' IS a Labrador, otherwise I've just racially villified your dog!

Arrgh - what a terrible mistake. None of my PC friends will ever talk to me again...

Dear Listers, Scury and Great White Zulu,

Apologies to one, especially Scurvy and Great White Zulu for all this long listing. The extended reply from Scurvy establishes what I didn't understand and took to be a personal comment. I can completely agree to his notes on my level of service, again my apologies.

I can see where I was wrong now, and retract my statements.

Also thank you for starting the debate on what we want to see in convention. I hope that this will see something change.

Best wishes,

Nic

Camb if you have the mental pic of me going around picking on peoples paint jobs and laughing at them then its a fair call what you said. Unfortunatly it wasnt the case.

Let me fill you in.

The warmachine comp had more unpainted lead than painted. The 40k comp had alot of half painted primed figs.

Many of the remaining paint jobs were a jaring mishmash of colour with little to no effort spent on the look of the force.

In amongst this as I mentioned there were some stunning paint jobs. (one guys warhammer orks comes to mind.)

The term 'orange' space marines painted by dyslexic 12 year olds was to give the reader an instant mental pic of many of the ADULTS paint jobs.

To be honest I didnt think the childrens efforts were worth any sort of comment as they were what they were. Childrens efforts.

What was I meant to say? That the paint jobs were all stunning? They wernt. I called a spade a spade.

Now Tae if were are going to be all mano lets get real

Full contact biffing is pussywillow stuff! Now a real man would of offered something like dueling with flaming chainsaws or Irish confetti at ten paces. ;)

Are you Man enough to take a half brick in the head?

Oh for goodness sake Scurvy - I don't have any 'mental picture' of you (although I'm starting to get one - now who's being over sensitive!) My example was a HYPOTHETICAL question posed to Javier to counter his view and wasn't aimed directly at you. I made that clear at the beginning of the second para! Did you actually read my post properly!?

Let's change the subject shall we? Your knowledge of retailling and how to run a stand at a con is very impressive. Obviously the eureka guys have a lot to learn. Where did you learn all these retail and marketing skills? (This is a serious question)

P.S. Sorry - can't resist one last pop - re-read your first post. You make no mention of adults in the context of the "dyslexic 12 year olds" statement. If you had, I would probably not have given it a second thought.

Im very glad the smoke has cleared and we are all getting along again. To Nic I apologise for the somewhat barbed post. I should of taken the initative and asked you to bring out everything you had or asked you to repeat what you said then made my purchase decisions.

Canb wrote - Your knowledge of retailling and how to run a stand at a con is very impressive. Obviously the eureka guys have a lot to learn. Where did you learn all these retail and marketing skills? (This is a serious question)

The hard way Im afraid. Selling lots of non fun stuff that people dont really want or need for many years is the short answer. I really envy guys like Nic that can make a quid and enjoy it at the same time.

To be honest I have put alot of thought into what I would do to improve sales and recognition of our beloved local minis guys.

Some ideas are. Nic's in Melbourne so is Millisims. We know they already have a good business relationship. Perhaps Nic could request they take some of his lines up in their truck next time in exchange for some gas money or a millisims only promotion of eureka stuff. Another option would be to ask those Melbourne game clubbers heading up to take some of your stock up. Take down the rego numbers of the mules if your worried about theft. (Im sure most of these guys n gals would be thrilled to do so for nix or a little lead.). The final option being interstate truckers. These guys will take a few extra boxes on their load for a little extra untaxable income. Just ask the drivers themselves not the company in order to get a mates rates price.

Now onto a more daring idea.

There are less than a dozen Aussie manufacturers mainly working independantly of each other with the odd collaboration. This means we have lots of capital wasted. Each has its own casting setup, pays utilities, staff, admin, travel ect ect. (not to mention some manufacturers also have the same fig lines for sale which dilutes total profits as the market share is split among the different manufacturers.)

Why not team up?

One casting setup to do everyones work with the capital from the sale of excess machinery ploughed back into new lines ect ect.

One central location saving tons on utils rates ect ect. This also allows assets like staff to be cut back and the remainder used to the maximum potential. (with the internet becoming the chosen medium of purchase this doesnt have to be a CBD location either.) Most of the creative stuff like sculpting new lines ect ect can still be done in scattered locations with the casting sales and website based at 'central command'

Co-operation on who produces what figs allowing all manufacturers to grab all of that slice of the available market not to mention freeing up capital once again that would of been spent on dupe' lines of figs.

A division of promotion. For instance Mr Webb is in Cairns (lucky thing!) He could promote the companies products in QLD. Nic in VIC could handel that state and a Sydney guy do NSW and ACT. This once again frees up capital that is wasted by mutiple transport costs.

Increased profile - By making one mega company you dramaticly raise your profile. Suddenly your one big fish in the pond. The savings in other areas of the reorgnised company can also be spent on getting the word out and raising profile. (not to mention the savings on running one isnted of multiple web sites.)

Increased sales - I know the manager of Logical choice will only carry a few lines from the big boys due to past frustration with having to deal with multiple little fellas.
One big company convinces business that supply and service will be nice and easy for them.

Finally marketing muscle- Your now big enough to go Mano et Mano (couldnt resist ;) with the big players out there. Take em on you can hold your own against the big boys now!

There will be of course issues as each guy has built up his business and will loose control in some areas. No one likes their baby being taken away thats a fact of life. One should consider also that babys grow up one day and leave the nest. So do successfull businesses.

I think though that many would see the sense in a merger. Increased profits allowing one to shower themselves with expensive consumer items is always a strong incentive.

Now to sound somewhat (ha!) egotistical

Give me 4 hours to do a presentation to the local manufacturers and I can get em started on being the next GW within 5 years. Though a much nicer more ethical company of course. (well I guess that last statement was gas in the fire for the GW fanboys opps. :)

Damn straight Scurv. I'm man enough alright. We shall meet at dawn. I bags the clinker brick but will allow you a choice from my own collection of masonry. I'd suggest the cream coloured number with light green rendering ;)

;) your on tae.
(As a side note Im quite sure its still leagal to hold a duel in this country)

Now back to the serious stuff.

If none of the above appeal to the manufacturers then at least one thing should be done. (though this would also work well with the above ideas.)

Get some GOOD in house rules designers. Then produce rules that utilise all manufacturers figures.

To clarify with an example - Nic has cave men, Maidenhead and shadowforge have cave women not to mention maidenheads excellet cave animals and birds. (I think maidenhead also have cave men but dont quote me on that) If we combine all these figs we have a complete or near complete gaming line all set up and ready to go.

Get some rules that are puropse built around all these figures. If you can offer a complete range and rules to go with it your sales will increase dramaticly.

Now onto a final note

I have realised Im espousing economic rationalism the credo and wet dream of the liberal party. I have taken 4 showers already but still feel unclean. Shoot me now and put me out of my misery!

Scurvy - I admit I was trying to be provocative with the "what's your retail experience" question as I was about to turn the flame thrower onto your first unduly abrasive response to Nic Robson. Some of your criticisms did have a certain logic (I detected a sales background), but I know from my own retail experience that many of your comments were unreasonable in the context of a small business carrying - by nessessity - a very high volume of different multiple product lines. However, from your last posting I think you've come to recognise that, and your tone is much more constructive and conciliatory. For what it's worth, I applaud that - and I'll put my flame thrower back in it's box.

I suspect everyone will be relieved to hear that this will be my last posting on these matters. Give 'Panzer' a pat from me please Scurvy.

Sorry - I mean "neccessity"! Can we have a spell checker Bill?

Dammit! Now I have to put away my rubble collection, the flaming triple staff, Chinese cutlass, pair of kukris, spiked gloves, AND the Saturday Night Special. Of all the rotten luck. Ah well, there's always Cancon 2005...........

Well, since Scurvy's my e-pal... I'd laugh at the joke and piss me boy a bit more "'cause he's not painting like his dad". =Þ

Really, Cambyses, you Aussies have tougher skins than that.

I'm afraid that your hypothetical question is a bit of a no-contender since I knew Scurvy's intention after reading a lot of the demented posting he does here... Then, I'm not questioning your right to have an opinion. I'm just pointing out the whole thing was blown out of proportion and it wasn't Scurvy who started it.

He used strong descriptions of our friendly neighbourhood's nerds, but we are all a bit of a bunch of twisted gits when it comes to make fun of the "unlightened", the retailers, the cheese-lovers, the basic-supporting members, con-goers, historicals-only purists, fantasy-only weirdoes, science fiction flunkies, GW, the Foundry, et all.

It's part of the mood this kind of topics have attached to them.

If Scurvy or anyone else was bugging someone and I was there, seeing it, I might jump in and tell Scurvy or whoever it was to lighten up.

The exact same way I do here at TMP when the postings go ballistic, and are either unsubtantiated or just the product of an overreaction.

I'll never question your rights to have a personal opinion, just take into considerartion when your opinion might be the product of a slight misinterpreation or "just being overly-serious".

PEACE, I order!

lets all drop it k.

Lets remember with pissing contests that the higher you go the greater the chance of just ending up covered in your own piss. (I love the mental image this saying evokes ;)

What I would like to see though is some ideas about why my idea of a merger wouldnt work or fail to achieve a decent outcome. Lets move onwards and explore how we can really put our local guys on the map.

Look I like Eureka I have eureka steam tanks, alien hunters and my pride and joy my psyco clown who wards away work from hitting my desk. (All of which were impulse buys with no idea at the time what I would use em for. Good minis good prices and Nic isnt a bad guy either.

I guess saying No kudos to eureka was somewhat of a red flag to Nics understandably loyal customer base. On reflection I guess I will be less 'colourfull' in future and clearer in content when refering to Nic's company.His fans are fanatical ;).

The dog by the way isnt a lab its a Bully/red heeler X. Brains of a red with the lock jaw of a bully an evil cross.
ok ok I cant resist. The other day she scared the living hell out of some junkies (their evil little pinned eyes gave em away.) that had tried to slip in through the front door and nick me VCR. (the door was open and the fly screen closed but not locked.) They got as far as touching the handle and pushing down before she nailed em and bailed em up. They squirmed and storied about looking for some owner of a red commodore before being told to p off.

yep she is one damm fine dog. best of the best.

oh and Doc those people wernt figments of my imagination.

I like the idea of an Aussie miniatures cartel ruled by an iron, yet scurvy fist.

And you are wasting your time nerd spotting at a con in Oz, one trip to a con in the US and your nerd tracking device would explode. We trap and bag them here. Thats how I was first captured.

lol

not ruled by me at all they would have to run their own business I wouldnt have anything to do with it. I do think some of the ideas have merit esp the rules one.

What a thread! At least we know that we Aussies are a passionate yet reasonable lot once the heat gone out of these arguments. I've never been to Cancon but would like to have a look my myself now. Scurvy has some interesting ideas but they would take away too much from the independant spirit of Australian manufacturers.

I have nothing but respect to those people that volunteer their time to organise and run a convention. Yes it is a fact of life that some people are better organisers than others, BUT ALL THOSE VOLUNTEERS are doing their best and they have my respect for that.

The hobby clubs and the club members that organise an event work bloody hard and from personal experience when your wife and 5 year old son asks you not to do it anymore, then you start realising how much time you have put into it at the expense of your family.

I've heard nothing but positive comments about CANCON until reading this thread.

If you really think that others are not cutting it with the events that they organise, then lets be constructive.

Rather than complain, HOW ABOUT VOLUNTEERING TO RUN A TOURNAMENT YOURSELF AND LET US ALL KNOW WHICH ONE IT IS SO WE CAN ATTEND AND RATE IT FOR YOU.

If you do a better job, then well done you have improved our hobby hopefully for many years to come, these events are annual after all.

Regardless of whether you do or do not run an event, how about showing some good will to the poor sods that have consistently volunteered their time to organise and run events like CanCon.

Note I've also got a lot of time for Nic and given his car situation, I'm personally believe he was lucky to attend CANCON at all this year.

The best part of this thread was going over to see Scurvy's pic....and when I clicked on it, it opened on its own page...

The banner ad at the top was for "Magnificent Egos, Uncommon Characters"

Im still laughing at that. An apt description for pretty much all of us here at TMP. :-D BTW, Panzer is a handsome dog.

Ok, Ive had my laugh (at my own expense as well)...we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.