"Wargames Factory Generic WSS Inf & cav" Topic

I submitted Generic WSS Infantry and Cavalry; they are both very close to 50%. As we are aware by now at 50% subscription initial art work is posted and this seems to generate even more interest. Tony and I have started preliminary talks about these sprues and I'm very excited about the possibility of these guys actually making it to production. I'm also excited about some of our first ideas regarding these castings. At the very least it would be awesome to see some preliminary art work for the castings.

If you have any interest in 28mm WSS figures I think these are going to be very useful sprues. I don't want to fall into the trap of promising too much in advance until talks and art are finalized. The one thing we know to be absolutely true is that nothing is final until the soldiers are in successful production. Regardless I believe that if you are at all interested in the WSS you will find these sprues very useful. So if you are interested please support this effort.

One more item I hate to bring up but probably need to. We know that some folks are excited about the prospects this venture offers. There are others that don't care for the WF castings or offerings to date or I guess even the company. This isn't about any of that. This is a request to those folks that are interested in the WSS and willing to try some more WF figures to please support these two items.

If you aren't interested, if you don't care, if you don't like WF, I respect your opinion and Vive la Différence.

regards,
Donald~

I'm very interested in this project as well and have signed up for some of each sprue for when they come out. Ideally I'd like to see a sprue with 4-5 regular soldiers on it in marching pose with separate hats so that you could do the tricorn or the floppy hat and game earlier periods with them as well.

If this were done you could have anything from the 1680s to 1715 just about. It wouldn't be perfect but it would be very close for most things. You could certainly do both the Boyne and WSS with this option.

I put myself down for some of these sprues and I'm also willing to help in whatever way I can with the design process – although I'm unsure how I can lend a hand.

oooh I am interested, is there a link?

Here are the links for WSS inf and cav

link

link

Signed up for both. Infantry now at the magic 50%

"Infantry now at the magic 50%"

Sadly, the 50% mark is not really magic. The only magic is at 100% when the figures will actually go into production. It is quite possible that a set of figures will get past 50% but never make it to 100%. Until then it's all just wishful thinking.

I know, but halfway helps you think it might appear. from a plastics point of view this isn't a bad period, as there is a much smaller need for extras above the basic uniforms, especially in the infantry.

Very cool put in for some sprues

I'm part of the first 50% for both sprues, and very much look forward to seeing first sketches! Like Diogenes, i'm unsure what else I can do to support the project.

I also put in for the SYW suggestions, and can't help finding it strange that they wouldn't find more interest…

Now at 53% and 46% respectively.

Will there be any command figures or will they be compatable with the metals made by other companies? I hope they match up with the Front Rank ones.

Why do we need another thread on WF plastics???

Joking aside, when I read this thread I thought it was about WAFFEN SS Infantry and cavalry! I would definitely jump for those!

Damon.

Simon, I fully agree, and did make the case to WF that their plastics ought to be made compatible with prominent metal ranges for the respective periods, if only because plastic economics would dictate they can only ever do the rank-and-file. Perhaps we can weigh in once the first graphics appear.

Damon, just put up the suggestion on WF's League, and hope enough other people (not me though) jump for them.

As a member of the massive three man operation that is Wargames Factory, I hail Donald Hauser's intrepid championing of his WSS project.

Once a suggestion reaches a certain level of interest, we know it's time to get a designer working on some initial images. So far, even when the first renders aren't quite on the mark yet, we've noticed that this spurs bookings towards a final goal – and the suggestion we receive help improve the model as we go on.

When it first went on to the lists, I wondered if people would actually want generic-style figures for this era (and, as a non-WSS player, they do look 'all the same' to me, more or less!) or whether the wargamer's traditional fussiness over lace styles and the number of buttons would kick in; "Good God, sir, you don't expect me to cut off extra buttons and paint in cuff lace, do you?? But if you make them exactly as I specify, for the Ducal Laundry Guards (1711 issue only), I'll sign up for three sprues!!")

But I was wrong! In the best way possible.

The challenge in taking on suggestions like these is to get enough preorders to make it a success.

There are some subjects where a lot of people will buy a lot of figures. That's why there are 186 brands of Napoleonics fighting for the attention of customers.

There are some subjects where a lot of people will buy a few figures. Whole fantasy and SF lines thrive on a very limited catalogue of extremely popular models. That's how all those RPG-oriented figures took off in the 1970s.

There are some subjects where a few people will buy a lot of figures. Periods where each afficionado needs seven hundred essentially similar figures doing exactly the same thing. This is one of those. So, while there's probably no chance of ever seeing boxed sets of Marlburian infantry at your local comic, cards and game store, there's every chance of enthusiasts getting the main types for their chosen period in plastic, mostly sold directly to them, at a very good price.

Compatibility with existing metal ranges is important, of course. The costs of making plastics mean that there won't be a set of pioneers with pickaxes, or generals taking snuff.

We were talking about sprues of artillery, though.

Thanks Howard for the additional clarification and support.

I actual remember the first time I collected and painted WSS figures and they were the generic 15mm Dixon range--I sold them a dozen years back sadly. They were basic WSS figures that took paint nicely and could be painted to be almost any Rgt, except French Dragoons. I was able to collect and paint Bavarians, French (Irish, Guard, Swiss and Native Rgts), Austrians, Prussians and English with the same few poses and the same few figures. The bulk of my Horse and Foot were probably no more then a dozen different figures and they looked great.

I really felt like this range was one that would work generically if there was enough interest in the period 1680 to 1740 or so. I'm very hopeful that we prove you wrong Howard. I'd like to hope the figures will generate enough interest and support that this will become a true fully supported WF range of figures (especially since nobody else is doing this in plastic)--time will tell though.

If we do get to production I for one will be collecting forces to play Bill Protz's fine offering BAR with 56 man units of Foot and 36 man units of Horse.

Now on to posting some concept art good fellow! There's a fine gentleman, let us have at it and generate more interest if you will sir!

regards,
Donald~

How about a set of pickaxes though (and shovels, while we're at it)- the wonderful properties of plastic mean that aficionados (of any period) could then do the rest…

How about a set of pickaxes though (and shovels, while we're at it)

My thoughts exactly for the Generic Artillery sprue.

A Field Piece, a crew in various states of dress, full coat, waist coat and shirt order and tools lots of tools, artillery and engineering.

on a related topic, what about Wargames Factory sprue(s) of Lace Wars heads – so you don't have to behead and sacrifice a costly mini just for headswapping?
Bare head, 'generic' tricorn, bearskin, generic 'Reformed + Russian' mitre, mirliton, busby, fatigue cap, 'blue' bonnet – perhaps even a Schomberg helmet easily customisable into a British light infantry / light dragoon type)
Advocated recently in different contexts:
TMP link
TMP link

To summarise the argument, such heads would allow 'historical gamers' to obtain at lower cost:
grenadiers in Prussian-like uniform but bearskin (such existed in the Reicharmee),
grenadiers in Austrian-like uniform but mitre
fusiliers in 'normal' uniform but miriliton
grenadiers for Troupes Legeres / Frei Corps with only the fusiliers commercially available
grenzers in tricorns (several regiments during the SYW),
grenzers in busby (=> Hungarian infantry of the WAS)…
troops (including dragoons) in fatigue caps (pioneers, pontooneers, militia / forteress / home guard troops…),
reciprocally officers / sergeants in tricorns for the types commercially available in cap (French in India, French Marines in Canada…),
troops in Highlander bonnet (many Jacobites wore it in "45; FIW Frenchs would become British),
Napoleonic Spanish guerilleros with tricorns would become good proxies for 18th C. ‘miquelets',
with a bare head in typical 18th C. haircut / wig generic or partly suitable types would become clearly set in Lace Wars times …
Useful for 'historicals' and invaluable for builders of Imagi-Nations.

That's an excellent idea, abdul666lw.

There might be suitable 3D models for this period already – as rendered in the EU3 and Colonization games.
The EU3 ones are good and cover multiple periods.
Target/Paradox (Sweden) used to be good guys and they might be willing to offer their models for free or as a basis for development in a joint promotional scheme. Or do the models for you. They have troops models from 1400's to 1800's already.
The Colonization ones are a bit simplistic.
I have seen other 3D generic musketeer models on some of the free model exchange sites.
If production of a fort similar to the Roman one on offer is of interest, there is a 3D model of Fort Ti on one of the payware 3D sites. At first glance one might think it would be a massive set of molds but essentially it is just a generic building and a generic wall i.e. 2 flat multi-piece molds. Kibri do viaduct kits by making a single generic stonework piece that is scored on the reverse side for cutting to the appropriate shape.
For poses, the film Sluga Gosudarev shows how the troops marched – in the GNW anyway. There are some figures out there with the leading leg of the marching figure depicted as straight at the knee. Bent knee would be a better choice.

Shamelessly hijacking of the thread…
Poruchik, what about, as a side project; fielding your 'tricornes' link (and semi-Turks) against your 'Tekumeli' helgrau.blogspot.com ?
Something along these lines: 18thcenturysojourn.blogspot.com

Could make your armies 'more profitable' to have them moonlighting in another (? or 'extended'?) setting…

Back to the generic WSS sprues. How many figures do you antipcate on a sprue? That would go a long way in determining hoe may I would sign up for.

Another case where 'generic' infantry -or at least sprues of heads- would be useful, greatly enlarging the potential of a 'specific' model: TMP link

We've been looking at getting eight marching figures on a sprue, with a selection of different hats to fit them.

Revised answer. If we do the big cartridge boxes as a separte piece, and have a full selection of tricorne, mitre cap, faur cap etc, it might be six figures. It very much depends on the balance between "lotsa figures" and "lotsa gear".

Mexican Jack: What about officers, colour bearers, etc?

Revised, revised answer. We are planning to price these figures 'by the figure' rather than 'by the sprue', so even if the sprue doesn't contain so many figures as we could possibly cram on it, that won't affect the cost to the customer. That's a better deal all round, I think.

The original suggestion from Donald was fairly open as to what would be included. If there's enough growing interest in the WSS generics, there's no reason we can't feature command figures. It's a question of making sure there's enough demand (as you'll understand) so we aren't making expensive steel moulds that only sell a total of 19 command sets worldwide :)

28mm "SYW universal musketeers", with turnbacks, would ideally complement the "WSS universal musketeers" without turnbacks (I think): both together would 'cover' 50 years. With 'generic' types one uses 'impressionism': early SYW French uniforms looked so 'archaic' with regard to the 'stingy' Prussian ones that WSS would give the right 'impression'.

For this period in particular, a factor to consider is the width of the figure. A wide figure may reduce sales. If a generic figure with widest appeal is the purpose, max figure width should be kept to about 3/4" for compatibility with other ranges. (My own standard is 7/10" which is less.)
Players typically base figures close together to fit more units on the available table width. The old 30mm figures were 1/2" wide, so an 8' table would fit a max of 192 figures across max. Some new ranges are 1" wide = 96 figures max. If trying to play big battalions at 24 figs width per unit, then a 1" figure limits the game to 4 units across. Of course, few people want to play 18thC games with 4 units a side, so they don't buy wide figures.
And anyone who has set their base width at X won't buy figures that won't fit on that base width, no matter how nice the figure.
And if the sales target is the big battalion players with 1000's of figures, a wide figure will lose that market segment.
This is even more of an issue for players who use single figure bases.

I like the idea of the cartridge box cast on if that allows for more headgear variants. I'm not so sure you could get 1000 commnd sprues--it'd be great if we could; however, Generic Artillerists/Engineers and the odd full dressed officer has potential.

Abdul-I promise photos are coming to Vulgaria (hijacking my own thread?). Forces of the Pedistuhl Empire in a desperate fight with the forces of the Elecotrate of Vulgaria and their friends the Russe.

Donald~

You could do one figure per sprue as a command figure with separate arms for the officer and standard bearer, etc. Might be harder to do for the cavalry, since there would only be two figures per sprue.