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"28mm SYW Zombies..and worse?" Topic

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Cardinal Hawkwood11 Feb 2009 2:46 p.m. PST

a thread to discuss this most lamentable gap in the product lines of all manufacturers

Cardinal Hawkwood11 Feb 2009 2:51 p.m. PST

includes werewolves and vampires..other things if deemed necessary..the idea is RPG in the SYW OK?

richarDISNEY11 Feb 2009 3:15 p.m. PST

Now then I WOULD play some SYW games…

abdul666lw11 Feb 2009 3:21 p.m. PST

Great minds think alike (I can say it, not beinbg involved!):
TMP link
link (French)

GoodBye11 Feb 2009 3:39 p.m. PST

Submit it to Wargames Factory I'm sure it'll get produced as the Zed market is strong, will buy and support it.

Me Jealous? Hells Yeah!

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Feb 2009 10:22 p.m. PST

Oh please, spare us!

abdul666lw12 Feb 2009 12:20 a.m. PST

Not posted on april 1st so: WHY NOT?
I argue that all games types generally played in Victorian times -VSF as well as Colonial- can perfectly be set during the Lace Wars: link .

Besides, Zombies in (18th C.) short breeches can be better 'Victorian Haitian-Carribean zombies' than most 'Pulp' ones in 'modern' long trousers:
TMP link

abdul666lw12 Feb 2009 2:02 a.m. PST

Just checked: among the Alternative Armies Flintloque Undead, only some of the Zombiski Cossacks link (those in fur hat or bare headed, not those in flat cap), and perhaps the Kryptofski Death Guard link (specially if the Napoleonic high plume is cut down) can moonlight in a Lace Wars setting.
To raise some ‘Frei Corpses' for the ‘Weird SYW' they provide a first basis but a larger choice would be welcome.

Always dreamed ‘Van Helsing meets Frankeinstein' link link
has been set in a ‘tricorn' background.
Kate Beckinsale as Anna Valerious picture could already pass for a 18th C. heroine: Shadowforge, you who already did Monica Bellucci from ‘Brotherhood of the Wolf': picture where is the mini?

Steve Blease12 Feb 2009 10:10 a.m. PST

Van Helsing? Pah – try Ichabod Crane, Necromancer!

Read the Battle for Sleepy Hollow:

The period is definitely ripe for exploitation…

vojvoda12 Feb 2009 12:20 p.m. PST

Hey anyone seen the lead in trailer for the movie Ginger Snaps Back. Kind of Last of the Mohichans meets the Undead.
James Mattes

shelldrake13 Feb 2009 1:19 p.m. PST

Those that are interested, please click on the link first posted by Cardinal Hawkwood – it will take you to another forum, but if you really want to see some figures made for Weird SYW, that is the place to discuss it

vojvoda13 Feb 2009 9:49 p.m. PST

So sorry Ian, I was not aware that "YOU" owned the

Horror Message Board
18th Century Discussion Message Board
Australian Wargaming Message Board

I was unaware that Bill was now selling franchises. Also I guess since I am not Australian I should get my Crocodile Dundee out of here.

James Mattes

abdul666lw14 Feb 2009 3:46 a.m. PST

As a kind of nazi of data filing and sure information retrieval I somehow may understand shelldrake's wish to have all exchanges on a single thread. But then *two* parallel threads are NOT that difficult to follow…

Speaking of Eureka and 'weird' (in a way or another) SYW, what is the current status of their "All-women SYW army":
link ?
I read with hope Chronofus last post: "Fingers crossed this range will be officially released mid 2009"
I know part of it is already available, at least in Australia:
Will the suggested grenadier(e?)s / chasseu(se?)s, dragoon(e)s and cuirassier(e)s finally appear?
Happy Australians: you *also* have Shadowforge:

abdul666lw17 Feb 2009 1:07 a.m. PST

For reason of prudishness it happens that werewolves in ‘bestial' form (just like the Incredible Hulk!) may save the ‘essential' part of their trousers. Thus ‘modern' ones may pass for earlier ones previously in breeches:
TMP link
Basically silly, of course, but potentially convenient here…
Otherwise, Crododile Games Ghouls have a very ‘Lovecraftian' {'Pickman's Model'} look
and would made great 'alternate' werewolves; Copplestone castings' Yetis would be impressive in that same role or as 'Bigfeet'.

As for vampires, would not 'paint conversion' suffice? They differ from normal human mainly by these pointed eyeteeth (which often leave bites as if needdle-thin incisors:!¿?) and palish complexion.

And even for zombies I wonder if what we are lacking of is not, basically, suitable 'poorly dressed rioting civilian' 18th C. minis. On such (and on WSS -> SYW military minis for 'Frei Corpses' -some Foundry seem swelled up by inner fermentations) scarifications and 'vomitory' painting would perhaps be enough. Additionally according to my experience 'dipping' the finished mini in 'clear oak' matt wood varnish give a grotty / shabby look that may suggest (impressionism) 'freshly unearthed'…

abdul666lw18 Feb 2009 12:28 a.m. PST

Wargame minis being seen from a distance and often en masse, I fully understand that some characteristic features have to be emphasized / exaggerated. As such I'm a firm partisan of ‘overbazooked' female minis, and while I painted hundreds of bare-breasted Amazons I never painted a single nipple. Instead, as for the lips, I used ultra-fine felt pens (waterproof red –for overhead projection: wonder if with the generalization of PowerPoint and the like they are still available?). Inaccurate color but highlightening an essential distinctive feature.
But on the other hand limited morphological alterations when shapechanging and very 'fresh' reanimated corpses (so that what remains of the brain is able to command still functional muscles) require less of 'willing suspension of disbelief'.

For zombies, as military types we already have the Black Cat Bases Undead Marines link -WSS rather than SYW, but this puts them apart more obviously. But I guess restricted conversions and chiefly an appropriate (Nurglesque) paintjob and 'spoiling' varnishing on 'historical' minis would be enough.
Indeed what would be far more useful –and of far more general use- would be sprues of 18th C. heads for headswapping: tricorn, bearskin, generic 'Reformed + Russian' mitre, mirliton, busby, fatigue cap – perhaps even a Schomberg helmet easily customisable into a British light infantry / light dragoon type) one could have: grenadiers in stingy Prussian-like uniform but bearskin or in Austrian-like uniforms but mitre (such existed in the Reicharmee); fusiliers in 'normal' uniform but miriliton (Volontaires de La Morliere, Chasseurs de Fischer..); grenzers in tricorns (several regiments during the SYW); grenzers in busby (=> Hungarian infantry of the WAS); troops (including dragoons) in fatigue caps (pioneers, pontooneers, militia / forteress / home guard troops…); reciprocally with tricorns French in fatigue cap –in India, Marines in Canada- would become sergeants and junior officers; Napoleonic Spanish guerilleros with tricorns would become good proxies for 18th C. ‘miquelets'… : useful for historical gamers and of tremendous potential for builders of Imagi-Nations. Relevant here, with blatantly 18th C. heads –including bare-headed one with the typical haircut / wig- scantily-clad types from earlier times (Eureka had some Portugueses ‘gone native' in South America –the corresponding link to Chronofus seems dead, unfortunately) could provide good bases for ‘Lace Wars' zombies. And of course such heads would visually set ‘generic zombies' in the 18th C… The idea was suggested for the Wargames Factory League TMP link but could equally be proposed to Eureka100.

Cardinal Hawkwood18 Feb 2009 7:43 p.m. PST

all good stuff..will star to put together some 100 club lists, would like them to be based around the Eureka Saxons..

abdul666lw19 Feb 2009 3:01 p.m. PST

Vampire hunters with a gorget extending into a medical collar (as in the Carpenter movie). Would be either 'civilian' adventurers or a military unit (for really 'weird' Lace Wars), so Dragoon types link -ideally available mounted picture and dismounted picture . Not much lace sculpted (would be added by painting), so they could be painted as civilians with individual, variegated, dress or as uniformed types. But true mid-18th C. noblemen and soldiers alike had *laced* tricorns.

Open-handed and weapons (+ pointed sticks, torches..) provided separately so that they can also be used as werewolf hunters -a good protection of the throat would be equally precious, the weapons supposedly loaded with silver bullets…

No horses provided for the riders, so they could be mounted on 'military' (with the pistols holsters and 'uniform' saddlecloth) or 'civilian' ones (I suppose many late 19th C. – 'Wild West', e;g.- horses could pass for mid-18th C. 'civilian' ones?).

Could also provide an original troop (Guard?) type for Imagi-Nation builders.

'Lacepunk' as it is is still a (very marginal) part of Lace Wars-gaming. Fortunately vampires, zombies and Da Vinciesque – Munchausenian contraptions appear sporadically in the 18th C. Discussion Messages Board without causing allergic reactions.

Re. the 'British commando werewolf armed with two large calibre automatic pistols and his sexy lady commando friend' alluded to in the original (Ozwargaming) thread link we are in the mid-18th C., remember: while I'm 200% supportive f the 'commando girl' and have nothing against a shapechanged 'British commando' of the time (FIW ranger?), the 'automatic pistols' seem out of date (unless multibarrelled 'volley' types, similar to the historical 'volley guns' picture ?)…

Cardinal Hawkwood21 Feb 2009 2:30 a.m. PST

Well very colourful abdul666lw have you joined my forum…there are a number of people there who would really enjoy discussing these ideas..

abdul666lw22 Feb 2009 1:02 a.m. PST

Cardinal Hawkwood I'll do -since your first post of Kopf-Schlager troops I followed the development of the army of your imaginary Bishopric, and then your Great Pangaean Campaign: time to cease acting like a lurker / leech.

But re. the topic of this thread imho what we need (and what would *be of far wider use / selling potential*) would be 'normal' minis of all the (female as well as male) civilian types you listed on sat. O2.21 (don't forget a priest in 'everyday' dress -just painting the collar differently would make him a clergyman / preacher; and a few nuns in 'active' poses? Perhaps also the multi-purpose 'monster hunters' described above). Cast with open hands so they can receive, according to their intended role, tools, torches, crosses, garlic chains, pointed sticks or wooden spears, 'improvised' (forks, scythes…) or 'real' weapons. So they could be bought and used in any role from undeads to settlers to bandits / militia in 'historical' games.
Sprues of '18th C. heads' would be a nice complement.

Now (conditioned by 40 years of biology-related job?: O2.17 comment there: link ) I prefer 'credible' "monsters". For 'zombies', bodies in such state that the players may not know for sure if these are real ‘reanimated corpses' or living persons controlled through drugs and mesmerism (including in the 18th C. meaning: using electricity : brain frying?).To obtain such 'credible' (i.e. not so decayed that one wonder how the green snort their brain turned in can command the jellied remains of their muscle to move) zombies I think some scarifications of the body with a cutter or pin point, degradation of clothes with a nail clipper… of 'normal' minis, followed by an appropriately 'vomitory' Nurglesque painting and a 'shabbying' / dirtying 'weathering' would suffice.
For vampires I suspect 'paint conversion' (very pallid complexion, some blood under the mouth…) following perhaps the addition of greenstuff teeth, again would suffice.
The 'harder' type is werewolves: if of a 'credible' type (no change of overall mass, not great alteration of skeletal anatomy…) who keep (most of) their clothes when shapechanged picture (with the visual advantage that they remain 'chronologically tagged' by their dress -they could also be victim of some 'Dr. Jekyll – Mr. Hyde drug) I suppose it would be a matter of modelling putty / greenstuff worked with a pin point, and then painting, to give them the extra fur, teeth and claws? Again 'swappable' heads would be convenient -they are unlikely to keep their hat / coiff when shapechanging!

Not very constructive, I'm afraid?

abdul666lw22 Feb 2009 6:00 a.m. PST

Sorry if I sounded negative -was not at all my intent!
While a big fan of SciFi and Fantasy since I was able to decipher comics, I prefer to have the required amount of 'willing suspension of disbelief' minimized (Ockam's razor?). 200% personal, of course.
Thus e.g. for vampires I favor the 'Matheson model': a contagious disease transmitted by biting. Resulting for the parasited host in metabolic and psychological changes (when you have to survive feeding on human blood your values / worldview have to be quite different -parasites *can* do that; what is classically translated as 'loss of soul'). Indeed while the infection has unpleasant consequences -hyperreaction to the actinic components of solar light, perturbated social life…) it also brings extented (youth and) life -does the parasite stop the natural 'ageing' of chromosomes? Thus *if vampires could breed true* it would be seen as a symbiosis. But no blatant morpho-anatomical change is implied.

Thus you understand why, rather than 'special' minis, I'd prefer 'normal' ones that -in addition to being convertible to 'monsters'- could be (sold and) used as civilian bystanders / victims, rioting mob, crazied zealots, maddened crowd (including 'righteous avengers' and 'monster hunters'), guerillas, rebels, vigilantes, militia…

abdul666lw22 Feb 2009 6:40 a.m. PST

maddened crowd (including 'righteous avengers' and 'monster hunters')

With tax collectors among the possible monsters, of course.

abdul666lw26 Feb 2009 4:59 a.m. PST

She's probably not new, but I just discovered the Bronze Age "female Werefox": link
Cute and can well pass for a 18th C. (lovely) lycanthrope…

Cardinal Hawkwood26 Feb 2009 6:30 a.m. PST

wouldn't she technically be a Werevixen?

abdul666lw27 Feb 2009 2:27 a.m. PST

Re; the '18th C. headsprues' -or any other way of convenient headswapping- giving a recognizable 'Lace Wars' head to the Zardoz minis:
(and some conversions to 'archaize' the guns) would allow to use them as weird zealots / cultists. Or, with sewings / needleworks painted on them, 'reconstructed' Frankeinstein's monster- like 'slave-soldiers'?

Cardinal Hawkwood27 Feb 2009 4:37 a.m. PST

well very colourful stuff..what do you say big willow?

abdul666lw28 Feb 2009 11:05 a.m. PST

What about those "Sect Knights": picture ?
In some cities they don't even longer bother for secrecy: picture
You can see them -with religious (?) instead of ideological motivations- as the Lace Wars equivalent of those amphetamin-boostered neo-nazi ninja monks: link

abdul666lw11 Sep 2009 1:54 p.m. PST

Great minds think alike:
TMP link

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