"Ever Used Soldering Tool To Contour Polystyrene?" Topic

If done in a well ventilated area, is this something you have done with similar results?

link

CC
TMP link

IF what that fella did is indeed typical of the results, it could be the one tool I've been missing to make the Prehistoric/Victorian/SF/Fantasy multi-purpose tunnels I've wanted to make for so long.

CC

Never used one for that, but it might work. Don't see why not. And yea. WELL ventilated area…

Works very well if you have a variable power supply so you can control the temperature. As all others have said WELL ventilated work area is a must.

Are there different tips for those things? (Can you tell I've never used one of those?)

CC

yup most of the foam cutters and hot knifes are modifided soldering guns or wood burners.

I've used a propane torch to shape styrofoam. Outside in fresh air of course. People have told me they used a wood burning kit to produce results like that to.

Ditch the Skulz but otherwise, Onward through the Fog!

The most recent issue of No Quarter (issue 21) comments on using a soldering iron to carve runes onto foam.

Tony
dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com

I know that you can get different tips for wood burners.

Yes I have, and yes, do it outside, in the garage, or with the windows open.

A better way to make natural looking rock is to use the insulation foam boards, score them just a bit with a utility knife and then snap them apart. The resulting edges are perfect for unfinished natural rock walls. Simply base coat with black floral spray paint (so it doesn't eat the foam, available at craft stores) and drybrush with gray poster paint.

For hill contouring I use a hacksaw blade with a tape handle and finish with a mouse sander.

This would be fun to carve (hope some of these links work):

picture
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CC

Even in a well ventilated area, you may be working fairly close to the source of the fumes and occasionaly be breathing them in. I suggest also wearing a good dust mask that filters out most fumes or particulates.

Negative, don't use a dust mask, get a real paint-mask with Volitile Organic Compound filters. You do NOT want to breathe burning polystyrene.

I've done a bit of that hot texturing… I've also used solvents to get a 'melty' look that's good for biological looking terrain… ala Tyranid tunnels.

and hey… what that mini the tutorial guy in the link is using as an icon? It looks familiar but… not.

I think it's long-OOP GW, either an old Space Marine or a Squat in Power armor. *Very nicely painted, too.

Let me also say that a dust mask will do you no good and ventilation is must. Outside with a fan going to move the fumes. This is not something to mess with.

Just use a hot wire cutter.
A soldering station with a variable power supply is for use on actual soldering, at work we keep a couple of cr@ppy instant heat units to do things like melting plastic. I used one at home to make plastic downpiping on an Armorcast building look as ruined as the rest of it, but would never use my good one for that.
Solvents are ok but still smelly and poisonous. A hot wire cutter gives much better control.

Negative, don't use a dust mask, get a real paint-mask with Volitile Organic Compound filters. You do NOT want to breathe burning polystyrene.

I agree 100%. If you have a friendly local Graingers' you should be able to get one.
Check the label to see if it is rated for styrene or aromatic compounds.

So, if I were to get one of the soldering/woodburning tools, would it really make any difference if I got different tips, or is the heat so indiscriminating on the polystyrene that it would not matter what tip was used?

CC

it will not matter much more of a hand eye thing, Certain glues will do the same thing… do it outside with a good breeze or use a knife and mash the bad spots down with spackle or something! We don't want to lose CC!

I do use a soldering kit to cut Styrofoam (CC, polystyrene is hard plastic). And it works wonderfully on the type of bead Styrofoam used in CC's link on the first post.

I recommend getting a flat cutting tip for Styrofoam, it works much, much better than a soldering tip and cuts faster and more smoothly. You can still make the bumpy rocky effects with the flat tip too.

However, as nicely done as the project are in the link, I never use beaded Styrofoam anymore, despite the temptation to do so. My wife is always telling me I could do this and that for buildings or hills or caves with Styrofoam packing from various things we buy. But the white beaded Styrofoam is too fragile, in my opinion, and doesn't stand up well to prolonged handling.

For durability, I believe it's much better to use extruded Styrofoam which usually comes in pink or white. I find the hot wire cutter is not as effective and I give some idea of what i do to shape them in this link on my site on hills: link see the small section on 'Hills: Method III – "Bare" Styrofoam'.

--
Tim

I thought that Styrofoam was simply a trademark/brand produced by Dow, and that it included a form of both expanded (beaded) and extruded (blue/pink board) polystyrene:

building.dow.com/about/story.htm
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CC

Actually I have been an electronics technician since 1983 and this area is one of my speciallities.

Here are a few example of potential foam shapers:

link with an actual torch you can manipulate the heat to create other effects that a soldering iron will not

link a wood burning tool is a soldering iron with different tips that direct the heat over a wider area or to a specific point of contact

link the classic foam cutter is a modified soldering gun this type can do larger cuts but will also creat larger release hazards as well as more of a chance to burn the crap out of you

link lastly the feather weight solder pen which offers low price and basic function

Those above in that order is what I would use. As I have a dozen or so various types I can choose the right one, but at those prices you can build a foam cutting tool center for peanuts and beans.

Oh yeah least I forget, I have been an OSHA military/industrial inspector/remediator/and safety trainer for most of my life, so:

Effects of smoke from rigid polyurethane/polystyrene

Rigid polyurethane/polystyrene begins to degrade already at 250°C (Rosenberg and Savolainen, 1986). The degradation products include the isocyanate monomer (MDI, or methylene diphenyl isocyanate), the corresponding amine (MDA, or methylene dianiline), CO and HCN (Rosenberg and Savolainen, 1986; Orzel et al., 1989). The relase of CO and cyanide is degradation temperature-dependent (Zitting et al., 1982). The co-exposure to HCN and CO show synergistic rather than additive effect in the toxicity of the smoke in a rat model (Esposito and Alarie, 1988; Prager et al., 1994). If the experimental polyurethane/polystyrene samples were proofed with flame retardants, the toxicity of smoke was slightly diminished or remained unchanged (Hilado et al. , 1976; Hilado and Huttlinger, 1980a).

The fire smoke from rigid polyurethane/polystyrene contains much aerosol (Zitting et al., 1982). Most of this is liquid droplets which contain remaining polyols (Orzel et al., 1989) and most likely short oligomeric chains of the original polymer (Skarping et al., 1994). Accidental exposure to pyrolysis products from rigid polyurethane/polystyrene has caused respiratory irritation and fever (Littorin et al., 1994) and constrictive pulmonary disease (Voumard et al., 1995). Mice experimentally exposed to smoke from polyurethane/polystyrene showed extensive changes in the lung surfactant metabolism (Oulton et al., 1994).

As only polyurethane/polystyrene of the examined construction materials released HCN (Table 2) it is probable that it and other nitrogen-containing polymers have caused the HCN concentrations in the fire atmospheres (Table 1) and sometimes fatal cyanide doses in fire victims (Baud et al., 1991). It should be remembered in this context that almost invariably the victims have also been exposed to CO and have an important amount of soot in the lungs (Shusterman, 1993). This necessitates special treatment facilities and strategies (Crapo and Nellis, 1980). Long-lasting branchial hyperreactivity may result from exposure to fire smoke (Kinsella et al., 1991; Moisan, 1991).

It should be noted that there are all kinds of polystyrene with various chemical matrix that would alter the above, but none of the changes would be good in any way.

The best thing to do when burning this stuff is to use supplied breathing air and next would be a full face mask with the appropriate insert link and link

But, if you do not want to take these steps then at the very least conduct these cuts completely outdoors, not in a garage or room as the vapors will linger and hang, and wear at least a basic welders throwaway type mask link
(which won't stop the vapors/smoke but will keep some of the irritant particulates out)…better still use this for basic cutting with a knife and such to keep the dust out, better to use the above noted mask

This stuff is bad juju and stays with you forever…be safe with your fun or it will be like playing with a gun and you may not see another sun.

:)

In a completely unsafe foam forming issue, which I do not recommend, spray brake cleaner or carb cleaner will do crazy stuff to polystyrene foam in any form.

IF, you try this, then I highly highly recommend you do it completely outdoors or in a 2000sqft indoor shop with full vent and no other people.

First you a fish fillet knife or a thin hack saw blade to carve your basic shape, lay the pieces to be modified on newspaper, gently apply the brake/carb cleaner (not WD40 as this leaves an oily film forever) at a distance using it as a mist, check for change…which will continue until propellant has expired…5 minutes or so, and reapply as desired.

This will create a matrix break down in the polystyrene and makes some interesting sagging, melting, and holes.

Best of luck…and remember the whole process with or without the brake/carb cleaner is quite flammable.

Wow. Sounds wicked!

Do you rinse the cleaner with something afterwards?

CC

Ah. CC and 28mm Man, I stand corrected on the definition. Thanks!

But isn't polystyrene also hard plastic? I'm sure the plastic card I buy for scratch building calls itself "polystyrene"? or am I remembering it incorrectly (which very possible).
--
Tim

CC

You are right, I have a sheet of the pink stuff in front of me right now and it has Extruded Polystyrene Insulation printed right on it.

Ditto Bird

Yes some of the plastic card out there is polystyrene(from Evergreen) others are PVC (plastruct).

28mm Man's link to link is very similar to what I've used, except I use a looped fiting/tip similar to what is shown in the picture but with a flattened round end that looks a little like a blunt blade.

Anyway, one thing I didn't mention is that the much harder and more durable extruded Styrofoam (or polystyrene as it appears that is the correct name) is much more difficult to cut with the soldering gun, so I generally just use saws and sand paper. And given 28mm Man's post, it sounds like this would be safer, yes?
--
Tim

"Polystyrene" is a catch-all term for polymers of styrene, a reactive aromatic hydrocarbon. It is easily polymerized.

The form you get it in depends on how the polymerization is initiated and controlled. Variables include heat, pressure, catalysts, yadda yadda yadda.
It also depends on what is done with the finished stock.

So, yes, you can have hard rigid sheets or hard model kits.

You can also have it polymerized in such a way that cells are formed, and you get styrofoam.

You can also have other monomers like Acrylonitrile and Butadiene, giving you ABS.
And that's not all! Vary the A and the B, the temperature, the catalysts…

PVC is Poly Vinyl Chloride, and is nothing like polystyrene, except that it is also a polyymer and is also solid.

Ditto it is much safer to shape and form with sand paper, block, and saws rather than the cut/burn…but please keep in mind that the waste should be contained.

Where you should always be outside or under breathing air whenm applying chemicals or burn/cutting polystyrene foams the same is true that you should always saw, hand cuts, and sand polystyrene foam indoors so that you can vacuum up every little bit of the left over's. I use a shop vac that is clean before use and save the bits of poly dust for back fill to bridge gaps with resin (like the inside of a hollow hill).

The dust and bits are a serious eco red flag so be careful with the remains.

The little bits can be used with white glue to make loose rocks, mounds of dirt, etc.. It can also be mixed with regular house paint to coat surfaces…for spaceship battles, cut foam florist balls (3-8") in half, dip round side in the bit filled paint, and instant astroid.

Good luck…and wear a particulate mask the whole time you are sanding, cutting, and cleaning the polystyrene bits.

Rinsing of the brake/carb cleaner…yes, water and air dry

Interesting effect here:

link

CC

I just might have to make some of these rock formations in the last post. It would go good with my 14 squirrel husked pinecone trunked palm trees.

Safer too.

You might try using a rheostat or a simple adjustment for electric current. It will allow adjustment for the amount of heat and (hopefully) keep the styrene from burning.

A source of these current adjusters/power dialers is here:

micromark.com

Mugwump

You might try using a rheostat or a simple adjustment for electric current. It will allow adjustment for the amount of heat and (hopefully) keep the styrene from burning.

A source of these current adjusters/power dialers is here:

micromark.com

Plus a lot of other micro tools.
Mugwump

I have cut polystyrene in the past for projects with no more that a hot knife held over a gas cooker, repeatedly returning the knife to the cooker with half melted polystyrene on it, which did cause buring and smoke within the kitchen …… I am now obviously depressed having read all of the above !!!! and may start to collect stamps instead.

A modelling pyrogravue is too small. The Weller hot knife I have is useless and a proper soldering iron is too good to use for this. A hot wire cutter is just dandy and one of the American outfits do a hot knife that looks very good.

A hot air gun is interesting if you like GW style terrain and a gas torch is NOT recommended – but is even more interesting.

Do it outside, I always seem to end up outside the garage door on a wintry day doing this.

A surform works quite well but can be incredibly messy.