"Assault on Moon base ALPHA" Topic

Now that Jon from GZG has got space-suited guys with guns, what other figures could I use for a game, taking place on the Moon?

I like a few of the 15mm wheeled vehicles from Ground Zero Games they would make great moon trucks or APC's and maybe a few of the vehicles with legs.

I think lots of the Games Workshop craters painted gray would make great terrain for the moon.

How about a lunar module or something like that?

Does anyone else have any ideas to for a game like this?

…………Doug

You need a strong light source to throw long shadows on the crater edges . Throw in some rocky outcrops too .

Treat the craters as hard, and the shadows as light cover.

Makes for some interesting and fun maneuvering.

Hi Doug

I bought the GZG Bulldog trucks and Palladin tanks specially for this type of game.

I use the 'low' craters (code Z234) from Amera Plastic Mouldings as scatter terrain.

link

These have a better moon/asteroid feel in 15mm than the deeper Z201 Crater Set, which are deep enough to hide a Grav Tank.

As for lunar landers take a look at Peter Pig's Bomag Dropship.

picture

Looks better than the picture!

Cheers
Mark

You've obviously already though about using one of our new Bulldog wheeled trucks as a lunar transport – I'd suggest the logistics version (V15-42C), maybe with a small clear acrylic dome (Plastruct or similar) glued to the roof?

Jon (GZG)

Sounds like fun.

I'm wanting to do essentially the same thing in the UFO TV show environment, so will need some humanoid aliens in spacesuits too.

Of course, we are going to need troops with bazookas, and other hand-held, anti-spaceship/spacefighter rocket/missile launchers.

I have some of the Furuta UFO's, and Interceptors already, but would love to see a Moon-Hopper produced, like they used on the show.

The 6-wheeled space buggies like the Banana Splits used to use would be very useful too, for the Space 1999 theme. A larger 8-wheeled variant carrying a support weapon would be nice also.

For a little background on another take, the paperback book "Rebel Moon" would be very useful. The troops there sound very similar to Jon's figure offerings already in production, e.g. normal space-suited figs, and those in heavier armor.

I disliked the ending of the book, but the rest was useful for decent background scenarios.

Almost forgot, the station members in form-fitting attire should absolutely be at the top of the new 15mm minis list, since that is needed to keep up crew morale on those long, lonely assignments on the moon.

Thanks for the links Mark the craters look great!
I also like the Landing Pad.

"Of course, we are going to need troops with bazookas, and other hand-held, anti-spaceship/spacefighter rocket/missile launchers."

RAFM Infantry Pack No.1: link

Cheers
Mark

Just found this: link

Here's the Space 1999 model page: link and here: link

UFO model page: ufoseries.com/models/index.html and here: link

Mark

"I have some of the Furuta UFO's, and Interceptors already, but would love to see a Moon-Hopper produced, like they used on the show."

Furuta DID do the Moon-mobile, but it's apparently a very limited model and only available as part of a complete set – I have seen some on ebay. It's probably a bit too small for 15mm however, I'd guess more like 10 or 12mm at most from the sizes of the rest of the series.

In the big Product Enterprise special Eagle boxed set you get the "laser tank" and a very tiny 6-wheel moon buggy with driver, but you're probably not going to want to buy several sets at 50 quid or just so to get some of these.

Just to get a little extra plug in , our new lightweight-suited figures would actually work quite well for the aliens – the helmet shape is not too dissimilar, with red suits and silver helmets they'd work well.

All in all it sounds a very interesting project, and I look forward to photos of how it turns out! :-)

Jon (GZG)

Hi Jon,

I am lucky enough to have one in their large multi-piece set (not the Moonbase one), but the Hopper is quite small.

Probably better for 6mm scale, if I recall correctly.

Thanks for the info on the new lightweight suited figures.

Rob

Wow, i'm hyped… i'm thinking hard about putting on a low gravity/moon style game at our big local con next year… coolness… I hope some bouncing/floating versions of the armed vacc suits are released?

Okay, so here's a related hypothetical question about the Kra'vak, do they breath a non-human atmosphere? I know they come without helmets/breathing equipment… but perhaps they were mini breathers or adapters? This could be a reason to use vacc suits against Kra'vak… offensive planet operations against clan colonies or worlds? (Assuming they were found).

Adrian

Back in the heyday of the US moon landings, I built the Monogram (?) Lunar Landing diorama. It included an injection-molded lunar base. Following the recommended instructions, I brushed on a thick coat of flat black enamel paint, then wiped it off with an old T-shirt dipped in paint mineral spirits. By wiping in one direction *only*, the effect was of a low sun on the lunar surface, with off-white lunar soil with stark black shadows. To tell the truth, it looked better than the Lunar Module itself.

You could use a similar technique on the Amera panels, or other companies' craters.

Definitely lots of lunar base styles:

link

CC

Oh, and if you paint your crates an off-gray color, make sure you either seal them or use a flat black that won't "lift" the off-gray paint. I'd probably paint the craters with an off-gray enamel spray paint, then use a flat black acrylic, wiped off with an alcohol-soaked T-shirt. When everything was dry, a spray with Dullcote would give you a nice dead-flat lunar surface.

"Crates", heh heh! Let's try "craters".

Inari,

You could use your space-suited guys like this:

picture

CC

Just think what mortars could do on the moon. This is a great idea. Very "golden age" sci-fi.

Mortars?

What would be the escape velocity of those things on the Moon?

CC

I just remember playing an old hex based wargaming that was an assault on a moon base and the soviet units had nuclear mortars.

The low Amera craters are 6 1/2" – 7" across and 15mm high. You can easily squeeze a squad of individual figures inside each – two if you use FOW style basing.

Here's something interestng I dug up on net:

Lunar warfare

I've been thinking about what warfare would be like if it took place on the Moon in the near future. While science fiction is in love with laser weapons, it seems the worlds military are rather more conservative, in that they're very happy to go to war with weapons several decades old, but that they know work. My thoughts are below: my question is to ask y'all if I'm on the right track about the science:

* Conventional guns work pretty well. Bullets fly on shallower trajectories and (lacking air turbulence) don't need to be spin stabilised (so barrels are unrifiled). With a decent scope a sniper could be a threat at 10 miles away. Moondust and propellant residue must be cleaned from a gun's action with a can of compressed gas. For hand-held guns recoil is more of an issue that on Earth (because the firer has less weight with which to counteract it by leaning into the shot) so muzzle breaks are found on most guns. The big problem with guns is dumping excess heat. Single-shot and semi-auto guns have black radiative fins to try to dump heat, while automatic weapons must have cooling systems (which work by using the excess heat to warm dry ice, which sublimates and is then vented)

* Conventional unguided rockets work well. They don't need fins for stabilisation (again due to the lack of atmosphere), an have an effective range several times that of comparably sized terrestrial equivalents. Guided missiles must use high-performance motors (e.g sodium azide cells) to adjust their course midflight.

* a Lunar Positioning System (LPS) can be erected much like GPS. Reasonable advances in portable electronics and antennas mean that a system with fewer satellites (in wider orbits) will be sufficient.

* The weapons of artillery pieces and tanks work well (although the vehicles that propel them are obviously different). As with firearms, cooling is a major issue. When integrated with a LPS and an electronic battlefield system they can attack targets well over the horizon.

* No equivalent to close air support is possible. Tactical support of land forces is supplied by artillery or ground-to-ground rockets. Strategic bombing is achieved either by long range g2g missiles or missiles fired from orbital weapons platforms.

* With no cover, no weather, limited opportunities for camouflage, and the extreme ranges at which simple weapons are effective, everyone on the battlefield is very vulnerable. Humans, who are yet more vulnerable in pressurised suits and vehicles, are largely absent from the battlefield; most combatants are semi-autonomous robot vehicles.

Neglecting obvious speculation about energy weapons (which I appreciate would be more effective in a vacuum) does this seem, erm, airtight? 86.131.206.94 (talk) 20:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Instead of weather you get the long lunar night, which may be lit by earthlight, or only starlight on the backside of the moon. Things could very cold when not lit by the sun for weeks. Another factor is the extreme vulnerability of people to puncture wounds in their air containment. Something more like a shotgun may be able to cripple dozens of unprotected people. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:34, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget that conventional guns usually need air to fire properly, as they propel by a rapidly-expanding gas. New propellants or rail guns are probably a better option. SamuelRiv (talk) 20:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Any recoil vector not tangential to the surface would make the firer jump or fly up, which could be a big factor for artillery. A tank firing a sabot could put the penetrator into low orbit, so it would need to be careful about trajectory and try to figure out where not to be when it comes back around if it screws that up. The same goes for any weapon firing a projectile that goes faster than about 5,500 ft/s. Runaway missiles and stray shots would be raining down all over the moon for days or weeks after a battle, going as fast as they were when fired. Barrels would still be rifled, as the stabilization helps overcome perturbations caused by asymmetry in the gas blowby at the muzzle, which will envelope the projectile quite a ways downrange. Anything like aircraft would only be needed for emergency reconnaissance, as ballistic weapons could hit anything anywhere. Nukes could be used with impunity over the horizon, as all personnel would already be suited or indoors anyhow, and no blast would be felt. --Milkbreath (talk) 21:19, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe that's true. Conventional guns turn solid propellant into gas (during its explosion) and that's what pushes the bullet out. Gas from the atmosphere just gets in the bullet's way. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that there would be little opportunity for camouflage. The lunar surface isn't particularly flat in most places, so (depending on time of day) there may be lots of shadows to play with and lots of structures to hide behind (erosion is very slow on the Moon…). As well, the surface colour and texture is fairly uniform compared to Earth (just a couple of different broad classes of rock, dusted over in many places with regolith) makes supplying camo uniforms easy (none of this mucking about with separate desert/jungle/winter/city uniforms). Of course, waste heat from warm bodies and equipment will be a dead giveaway on any sort of infrared imaging during the chilly lunar night…. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:21, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Cheers
Mark

Can you still get the Arfix "Space 1999 Eagles", e-bay perhaps?

Awesome stuff guys…. I might end up making a red planet board… but a moon board would be fun too!

With a decent scope a sniper could be a threat at 10 miles away.

I may be mistaken, but isn't the curvature of the moon's surface an issue here? I'm pretty sure that I've read that here on Earth, the maximum range of any direct fire weapon (disregarding trajectories, projectile energy, etc.) is 3(?) miles due to the curvature of the planet's surface.

Given the moon's significantly smaller circumference, I would think that the maximum distance of such a weapon on the lunar surface would be drastically shorter.

Zen

"No equivalent to close air support is possible".

I disagree, since due to the lower gravity, and lack of atmosphere, it will be easier to deploy spacecraft and spacefighters on the moon. My guess is most will be drone-type weapons platforms.

Projectile weapons should not need air to function, since the propellants are self-contained.

I believe the horizon limitation noted above is correct, but given the right weapons velocities, and detection equipment, over the horizon targeting will be possible for many weapons.

What about light AFVs with jump jets to take advantage of the low-gravity conditions, like the Mako from Mass Effect? Could be interesting.

I started 'collecting' Konami 'Eagles' for some time..(before they went over $50 USD apiece!)…you can still get the 'recue eagle with SID and Fireball XL5 with S.I.D.' in one set…(two S.I.D.s/space intruder detector satellite) and a 'rescue' eagle (red stripes on center module) along with XL5 ship too…on ebay for about $25 USD including s&h,

anyway, I got the 'regular' product enterprise eagle/roughly same 'scale' as MPC 'Eagle' models and the 'Lab mod' version with spinal 'booster', laser tank (dome varient).and little 'moonbuggy' (which does look smaller than 15mm)…as well as several of the older MPC kits. The other two 'varients' were still based on 'chariot brit tank lower halves, I think, could prob kitbash them?

I also glommed onto the 'Swift' resin kit recently from ebay/Mini-model Madness used to carry it regularly…Had a custom build of SUPERSWIFT in same scale as Konami Eagles….and enough bits to kitbash the 'UFO double-bubble transporter?'…etc…(as well as UFO interceptors…etc?)

I just need to get some of the 15mm space-suiters from GZG BEFORE Christmas!!!??? (next payday before TURKEYDAY????)

I have the model of Moonbase Alpha/tech manuals etc…and some 'modified clixies' of 28mm 'Alphans' without spacesuits for 'M' class planets???

I just need a game/character sheets? and SOMEONE to game with???

oh…and maybe get the RESIN model of the ALTARES (originally designed for Space:1999 but used in 'Day After Tomorrow: Journey into Infinity' about 'photon drive' for Near-lightspeed travel/two 'families' on one-way journey into deep space)…

I think I can cobb together my own 'Ultra' and 'Meta' probes for Deep Space craft in keeping with the EARTH ships…

so much to SLISH…so little time…

Carpe' TENTACLE'um!
Sgt DWW-btod

The Hawks are rather nice too, but no doubt very pricey as well, nowadays.

For inspiration . . .

link

CC

this might be a really dumb question, but what are the prevalent colours up there? Greys or?

If you mean the lunar surface, yeah, mostly light greys, but individual rocks ranged all the way to almost black. I remember standing in line for hours back in the early 70s to see a traveling exhibit that included one of the Apollo capsules and a chunk of moon rock under glass.

Wow. Not a miniature, but still awesome:

link

CC

This is awesome:

link

For crater ideas:

TMP link

CC

Dang, great minds all think alike I guess. I am doing the same thing, having purchased several packs of GZG armored astronauts. Going to pair them with the old Traveller suited figures and fight out a UN/US war on the Moon (bonus points to anyone who gets the reference).

As far as close "air" support, I'm of the mind that it's impractical for a Lunar battle. Aircraft fly due to the pressure differential created by the wings, either fixed or rotary. Any similar flight attempts in an airless environment would rely solely on thrust. Doing so for any length of time would require huge expendatures of fuel – any craft carrying that much fuel is a target of opportunity waiting to happen and more a liability than asset. However, direct fire ortillery from orbiting ships/stations would be devestatingly effective.

ETA: Wow, sorry for the necromancy. Thought this was going into another thread.

Lunar dust is an issue, it gets on everything, into everything, and stays.

Assault versions of the "2001" Moonbus comes to mind.

Check this Stellar Horizons "future history" Facebook page,
link
You all might get some ideas.