"RULES FOR LARGE SCALE 1:1 BATTLES IN 6MM " Topic

I AM LOOKING FOR SET OF RULES WHICH USES A 1:1 SCALE FOR VEHICLES AND 1:1 FOR INFANTRY (1 TANK=1 TANK, 1 INFANTRY STAND=1 SQUAD/SECTION). I AM LOOKING FOR THE ABILITY TO RECREATE BATTLES UP TO A REGIMENTALLEVEL WITH MY EASTERN FRONT MICRO ARMOR. I HAVE "JAGDPANZER" RULES, WHICH ARE OK, BUT LOOKING FOR OTHERS. CURRENTLY I AM VERY INTERESTEDIN "PANZER TACTICS", WRG'S 1925-1950 RULES, AND ARMOR SKIRMISH RULES BY THE ARMCHAIR GENERALS (SEE WW2 RULES SETS).

Q: WHAT'S THE BEST SOLUTION FOR MY DILEMMA
ADVICE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED,

Q: WHERE WOULD I PURCHASE THE SET OF RULES--ESP. OUT PRINT ONES

There are three which spring to mind:

WRG 1925-50. Personally I'd go with the 1973 edition not the later one. Much simpler, which if you are looking at a few battalions is important. Infantry bases are weapons teams not sections.

Cambrai to Sinai by Newbury. This does use sections for infantry, but they rank among the most complicated and worse written wargames rules I have ever seen. Best of luck running a regimental game with these.

Firefly by BR Taylor. For all the flak it gets these are actually only of moderate complexity. There is a modded free version on freewargamesrules.co.uk.

For all of these ebay is probably your best bet. I do have copies of all of them but I ain't selling. If you are looking at big battles, the WRG is they way to go. These have been used for engagements involvng multiple divisions (though they would take a couple of days to play).

I'd go with WRG 1925-50 excluding the morale rules.

Blitzkreig Commander is worth a look -- it is rather the opposite (I think) of the sets you have listed though.

Its nominal scale is 1 stand = 1 platoon, but quite a few people play at 1 stand = 1 tank or 1 section.

It is based around the Warmaster command mechanics -- which means people either love or hate it. It certainly doesn't have incredibly detailed gun/armour interactions, but it certainly does produce a flowing game which gives a good period feel.

Blimey, WRG 25-50 were the first wargames rules I ever played, and I played them very badly. My opponent and I used only tanks and arty and only toward the end considered we should have infantry just before we stopped playing. Had fun at the time though, even if every came was an insane mini 'Kursk'.

A very detailed table of guns vs armour types, many years later is my main memory of the rules, and somewhat the main problem of it: it 6mm with a large lot of kit on the table, do you really want to assess every individual firer vs every single target?

Personally I would be looking for rules that used formation power and combined factors rather than each individual attacker v each target.

Then again, it has been a long time since I played these (21 years or more) so I could be doing an injustice to them.

We didn't play the morale rules, but as my force was Russian I think maybe we should have, made the Russians quite tough as I recall.

You might be interested in Panzertruppe, but I'm the auther so my opinion is biased.

It is 1:1 for vehicles and 1 stand = a half squad for infantry.

More info here:

TMP link

I like Panzertruppe (but know the author so may be considered biased as well). Mein Panzer also seems to fit the scale you are looking for.

Jake

"A very detailed table of guns vs armour types, many years later is my main memory of the rules, and somewhat the main problem of it: it 6mm with a large lot of kit on the table, do you really want to assess every individual firer vs every single target?"

I never suggested that trying to run a regimental sized action at 1:1 was a good idea, just that if you were going to try then WRG 1925-50 might be the way to go.

The combat tables in WRG was pretty simple, a to hit table and then different effect tables for soft or armoured targets. Compared to some of its brethren it was really, really simple…

I would hesitate trying to run a regimental action using BKC at 1:1 – do you really want to be tracking multiple hits on anything up to 150 vehicles/squads on each side??

There was a really crazy mass armour set I remember from the late 70s where tank units fired by battalion at each other and there were no infantry at all. Despite the manouvre units being battalions, there were detailed rules for ramming….

dare i mention tractics?

Why not have a look at 'Combined Operations of WW2', currently in development by MAJIC Miniatures. It has the flavour of WRG and BC but is different.

If you are interested in trying it out and wouldn't mind giving some feedback you could join the Yahoo group and download a free PDF of the demo version of the rules.

Click on the link if you would like more information.

link

What about First Watch? Does anyone have a copy they wish to part with or know where I can get one? FYI--I will check out the "combined operations"
link and game listed above.

If you want to run 1:1 scale but concentrate on smaller units like a company or two per side then my rules are ideal.
panzer-war.com
Panzer War rules are free.
Plus there is a modern ruleset that uses the same system.

In addition Matrix games new 3D WWII computer game Panzer Command is based on the Panzer War system.

Just keep in mind that the WRG has a 1973 set, and a much different, and I feel superior 1988 set.

The difference is really in the command and control, and in actually having ratings that reflect things better than many comparable rules, and once you have played a few time become quite natural.

I have modded them to reflect a few things not generally covered for more specific formations, but generally they go well.

G

Ah yes, Tractics.

Still one of my favorites of all time…..

You could consider using flames of war but changing to a linear ground scale rather than the wierd logarithmic one the game uses in 15mm. FoW is a fast play set and in my experience works well, produces a fun game, values infantry and is ballanced.

The only thing a lot of WWII fans have issues with is the ground scale where 4"=SMG range, 8"=assault rifle range, 16"= rifle range, 24"=light AT range, 32"=medium AT range, 40"=very long range direct fire or short range mortars, 48"= medium mortars, 56"=heavy mortars or short range artillery, 64"=medium range artillery and 72"=decent artillery.

Another ewcommendation for the WRG set here, as long as you go for the earlier edition (I'd say the same about their modern rules – my gaming group started with the 1950-85 set, loked froward with eager anticipation to the revised version, and then went back to the original as it gave a far greater gaming experience)

Try auction

flames of war is a game not an historical simulation
it even says it is only an advanced rock paper siccisors in the rules flames of war is fun and fast i just wish they had 2 sets of rules 1 like they have now and a no nonsense no fluff gamer version

I would recommend a little known set called Ambush Blitz. I play it regularly for East Front at exactly the scale you describe.

It is currently published and can be bought by mail or email for about 10 euros, if I recall correctly.. I am in the US and the cost with shipping was less than 20 USD for a nice, color glossy rulebook with beautiful photos. The link:

link

I hear a lot of praise for BKC also, but I have never played it.

Good luck
Jim

I've plated Mein Panzer for a number of years,excellent 1-1 game,with options for air,infantry,amphibious warfare,you can make the game as simple or complicated as you like.It is available through Old Dominion gameworks.

OOPS …I meant played…lol

WRG 25-50 holds a special place in heart because of the appalling way its written, by no means the worst WRG book for that but at times pretty impenetrable nonetheless.. from what I recall, it suffered a bit from pandering to the idea that a set of rules had to have a points systems, so with a bit of tinkering with who could do what, and stripping away some of the more obscure detail (do you really need to know if your infantry are equipped with riflegrenades?) it was fun. Personally I quite liked the morale/capability rules.

I have to concur with the previous comments about the WRG rules. After cutting my teeth on "Battle! Practical Wargaming" by Charles Grant at age 9 I graduated to WRG's 1973 Ed WW2 rules as a teenager (1/76,72 scale) even now as I turn 45 (next week) I have yet to find a 1:1 set to replace them.

As I have mentioned elswhere I am attempting to to improve the "73 Ed" by combining the "To-hit" table from the 1975 Modern set and including the spotting rules from the 1979 Modern set as well as the improvements suggested by Mr Michael Reece in a "Dragon Magazine" back in 1978

I would go with WRG.
They are a good and reasonably simple set of rules.

If you use the 1973 version then the smoke and morale needs work.
Reduce the availability of smoke and size of the screen produced as it can fill a table otherwise.

It is fairly easy to modify the infantry rules so you have a stand per squad and I would definitely recommend that for large games.

You are asking a lot for a set of armor skirmish rules. Regimental level is putting a lot of kit on the table. I play Mein Panzer, which works quite well up to battalion level. You can visit the ODGW website, odgw.net, to see a two turn sample game in action. It plays fast, with lots of historical flavor and research involved to keep the game accurate. Though it does very well with tanks, it is also an excellent infantry game.

Good luck on your search, whatever game you choose!

The best set is Firefly, I've used them since 1988 and end up trying others but always end up going back to these.

Most tanks we ever palyed with were 240 T34/76 D's, 24 Stugs, 30 Tigers and 52 Pz IV's, is that the size you mean.

the best morale useage as well.

I have just made my set downloadable (Free). they are 1:1 but are designed around hex based terrain – I'm not sure whether that meets your needs.

There are a few interesting ideas in there (though I would say that)and they are at the easy end of the complexity scale.

grandolddukeofyork.co.uk

Hi Norm, I had a look at those rules they look interesting, especially as we are going to try doing our own in 6mm based on divisions and corps.