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"Anyone play Koenig Krieg?" Topic


Koenig Krieg

26 Posts

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Comments or corrections?

The Outlander23 Jan 2008 6:19 a.m. PST

Just wanted to see how many people out there enjoyed playing Koenig Krieg…
The Outlander

anleiher23 Jan 2008 6:31 a.m. PST

Our group has remained with KK for our SYW games for some 15 years or so.

advocate23 Jan 2008 6:44 a.m. PST

I haven't had a game of KK in years. It did give enjoyable if slightly slow games: I'm not entirely sure why we stopped playing. I've played various rules for the period since then, but have pretty much settled on "King of the Battlefield" which gives a good game and period feel within the time I normally have for games these days – three hours.

de Ligne23 Jan 2008 7:07 a.m. PST

Played dozens of KK games back in the '80s (oops, showing my age then). Loved the rules and some of the concepts which were original at the time (initiative moving around etc) but it caused huge arguements of interpretation within our group of 4-6 regular wargamers and that was one of the reasons why we moved to computer rules which cooled the temperature somewhat.
There is a yahoo group dedicated to these rules and there is a rumour that the rules are about to be re-issued (well, they have been threatening to do that for years but now it looks like it might happen). There is also an excellent related campaign set of rules.
I believe there are also 'house rules'- doubling the figure scale to nicer 24 fig battalions of foot.

elcid109923 Jan 2008 7:31 a.m. PST

Participated in a game of KK years ago, and on the fun scale it was right up there with watching either paint drying or grass growing.

My units were not able to move for most of the game and when they finally did get to do something the game was pretty much over by then.

Seemed like a pointless waste of time. Just my opinion. The other guys seemed to love it.

GeoffQRF23 Jan 2008 7:38 a.m. PST

There is a yahoo group dedicated to these rules and there is a rumour that the rules are about to be re-issued (well, they have been threatening to do that for years but now it looks like it might happen).

…I have a news item I'm just putting together on that

Geoff
LKM

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Jan 2008 8:50 a.m. PST

Participated in a game of KK years ago, and on the fun scale it was right up there with watching either paint drying or grass growing.My units were not able to move for most of the game and when they finally did get to do something the game was pretty much over by then.

Elcid: that was my exact experience with the rules as well. I never played it again.

JeanLuc23 Jan 2008 10:06 a.m. PST

tried it a few years ago…caused a horrible headache.

good ideas but slooooooooooooow

Thistledo23 Jan 2008 10:22 a.m. PST

Played it years ago and really liked the rules. However they did slow down the larger your armies got. I think it was this reason which eventually made me change rules. They are very comprehensive, with army list, a campaign system and map, and a supplement for sieges.

anleiher23 Jan 2008 11:47 a.m. PST

I suppose the "slowness" issue is one of perspective. Rarely does our group finish any game we play, in any time period, in 3 hours. Normally we play to a conclusion in 6 hours or so. Given that we used to play Empire, finishing a game in 6 hours seemed a Godsend.

Personal logo Dye4minis Supporting Member of TMP23 Jan 2008 12:14 p.m. PST

If you only had control of one brigade in a game of 12 on both sides….it sure could be seemingly slow. But when played where you had more, it actually seems to move fast (assuming you KNOW the rules.)

Of all the minis rules I own (and man, that's a LOT!) These remain my most favorite!

Tom Dye
GFI

Stavka23 Jan 2008 6:26 p.m. PST

I'm with Tom on this one. I have been playing KK since it first came out. I have occasionally ventured into other Lace Wars rule sets "de jour" but still I always seem to came back to it. In fact, I'm using it again for the War of the Austrian Succession.

I liked it because, in contrast to what other peoples' experience seems to have been here, Konig Krieg played fast! Certainly faster than Age of Reason did when I tried that set. With KK I used to get two and sometimes three games in during club days.

nsolomon9923 Jan 2008 6:57 p.m. PST

We played them a LOT in the early 90's and enjoyed their flavour and tactical feel but as our armies grew larger than a few brigades and we wanted to re-fight the major SYW actions with more units the whole exercise became just so slow we gave up. We couldn't get a result in the time we had available – back then typically 5-6 hours. I also recall there was lots of time spent (read "wasted") "interpreting" a few key points.

Funnily enough we're only just coming back to the period in the last few weeks with a newer rules set that seems to have the feel but allows a result in 3-4 hours.

Nick

Happy Wanderer24 Jan 2008 2:56 a.m. PST

A favourite of mine regardless. I have had many a fun game adn fond memories of those gamign days.

I always liked the games approach and battalion based scale.

It is interesting that the game may be re issued. Does this mean just another print run or a clean up, rules clarification and possibly some variations? If the game could accommodate a variety of ground scales and account for different basing systems as Might and Reason has so cleverly done then it may get a new lease of life.

Happy W

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2008 1:07 p.m. PST

Funnily enough we're only just coming back to the period in the last few weeks with a newer rules set that seems to have the feel but allows a result in 3-4 hours.
Nick


Nick,

What set of "newer" rules are you using?

Bill.

Cafe Vienna24 Jan 2008 10:43 p.m. PST

Could the proponents of KK elaborate on what it is about the rules that they like the most and why they are so keen on the rules? I do not know much about them but have an open mind and would like to hear more.

nsolomon9924 Jan 2008 10:55 p.m. PST

Bill,

We're trying "Might & Reason" from Sam Mustafa. Its a nice package with Pre-Battle & Post-Battle pieces, a Campaign System, an interface to the Avalanche Press Boardgame "Soldier Kings", Army Lists for both SYW & WAS, a points system and generators for pick-up games, and active web support including a bucket load of historical scenarios and a "Sun King" module to back date it to include WSS & League of Augsburg.

Early days, but so far it plays smoothly and without headaches and gives a surprisingly authentic feel for a brigade level set of rules. In fact I think the Command Control & core Combat mechanisms are so clean and simple they could be lifted out and used for other periods.

Nick

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2008 12:48 p.m. PST

Nick,

Thanks. Sam's the best! However I'm looking for a more tactical, 1:20 style game. Maybe he will publish one someday.

Bill.

The Outlander25 Jan 2008 12:49 p.m. PST

Well
let me add one thing. I must apologize for screwing up the printing of that last edition. I was in a big hurry, and must take responsibility for that one…too bad that I did not get the support from my partners at the time. One, whose name shall remain unmentioned, was supposed to have done the copy edit, but instead, ignored it all. Then, a few years later was belittling me for the rules…
HOWEVER, I posted this question to find out about how many people play KK… any ideas?
The Outlander

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2008 3:19 p.m. PST

Outlander,

Sorry for the hijack.

Bill.

Stavka25 Jan 2008 6:59 p.m. PST

If a new edition came out, well-tested and proofread, I'd get a copy for it for sure. The rules always had a simplicity and elegance about them I liked, and which I felt captured the spirit of the period. That and I didn't have to use multiple kinds of dice!

The only things that I find anachronistic about the rules now the unusual basing system for artillery crew, and the casualty removal system (I hate placing rings on my figures, and armies are too big to start messing about with single casting removal or with record keeping charts).

And judging by the posts here some way of ensuring that the waiting time is reduced when playing large games with multiple players may be in order

Jeff of SaxeBearstein26 Jan 2008 4:11 p.m. PST

If I might add something, I'd like to see some "official" modifications for using double-sized units -- to me, 24-man battalions look so much better than 12-man ones.


-- Jeff

Stavka26 Jan 2008 6:16 p.m. PST

"If I might add something, I'd like to see some "official" modifications for using double-sized units -- to me, 24-man battalions look so much better than 12-man ones."

Seconded! I would think that two or three brigades a side would make for an fast-moving and visually attractive game with 24-man units.

Wulfgar27 Jan 2008 3:05 p.m. PST

Koenig's Krieg was my first introduction to miniature wargaming, and I'm still very fond of them. In our group each person painted up two infantry brigades and one cavalry brigade. With six to eight players per game that felt about right. The rules were easy to learn, moved at a comfortable pace, and produced very few disagreements regarding interpretation.
I have not played KK for some years now because my main focus has changed to the 12th century and the War of 1812. If I were to take up the SYW era again, it would likely be with Bill Probst's Battailes de l'Ancien Regime. However, I did enjoy KK very much, and would not hesitate to play with them again.

The Outlander29 Jan 2008 12:01 p.m. PST

I like the idea of the 24 figure units, too. HEY, do what I did.. I changed NOTHING else than the size of the units. The rules worked just fine…
the outlander

GeoffQRF01 Feb 2008 9:00 a.m. PST

Ok, we are officially on the go…

As we have indicated earlier, we have decided that we are way too busy with figure masters, moulding, casting (real-life jobs, families, etc,etc, etc) to spend the time that Koenig Krieg really needs to get it together. Therefore, as as suggested by some of you here, we have sold the rights across to someone else.

Drew of Dragonfire Games (http://www.dragonfiregames.com.au) is the new owner (by deed of assignment) of Koenig Krieg and associated supplements. No doubt he will follow this up shortly with details of what he intends to do to bring this rules set up to scratch along with some idea of timing.

We wish Drew every success

Geoff
LKM Direct Limited
Feudal Castings, Freikorp and QRF
quickreactionforce.co.uk

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