"Saga and Dux Britanniarum" Topic

I am wondering how people who have played both would compare them?

Isn't the main difference one of scale – SAGA is a skirmish or 1-1 ratio, whereas Dux is supposed to represent larger forces?

Dux Bellorum (the osprey one) is the big battle set of rules. Dux Britannarium (the Too Fat Lardies one) is similar scale to SAGA.

Unfortunately I havn't played either yet, but from the read-through I prefer Dux Britianarrium for the campaign system, the morale system and the command-control aspects.

Two popular sets of rules in my favourite periods! I own and have played both and I have to say that I much prefer the DB rules for the following reasons:

~ Combat rules more flexible in DB than Saga, making tweaking and additions more approachable. I intend to do some Goth and Hun shinanigans now the kids are back at school.

~ I am extremely pleased with the 6 man squad with its casualties combined with the accruing Shock markers that makes a mind blowingly slick way of tracking morale and attrition. Truly it is something else – though this is the first TFL rules I have tried so some may be used to it!

~ I prefer the DB use of a card deck over the Saga battleboards and funky expensive dice. A personal preference, easy to add to and expand.

~ DB has a clever campaign system that aids characterisation of prime contenders in the games. I like that. Saga lacks that, and I miss that.

~ I LOVE the way skirmishers are dealt with in DB.

~ Characters are less heroic in DB and I like that. Saga warlords are demigods.

I daresay there is more, but I must get on. Saga is a good set but I never took to it and will sell it on eventually, but DB fired my imagination immediately. These are only my personal opinions and I wish in no way to besmirch Saga's good name!

Actually I like 'em both for different reasons.

SAGA is a big hit club-wise and started lots of players on Dark Ages.
It is not so much a historical representation of a battle but more of a game.

That said Rudy and I took a SAGA game to a (non- wargamers!) local show last weekend and hosted games all day! Especially youngsters seemed to be attracted to the game system, and picked up the rules in half an hour.

Tournaments are being held with SAGA, and that is something that will probably never happen with Dux Brittanarium.

Dux Brittanarium is superb as a campaign system. Many of our gamers that flocked to SAGA initially will now be playing in a -dual- campaign that starts in 2 or 3 weeks. SAGA will still be played obviously but the less heroic system of Dux B seems to win over those more historically inclined.
As Crocus already mentioned Dux B. is easily adapted. One part of our campaign will be the 'classical' British against Saxons whilst the other will see Franks pitted against Britons in Armorica.

I'm a bit biased of course since I'm a great fan of the TFL rules and have always thought that IABSM was/is the best ruleset ever. Now I'm not so sure anymore. Dux B might be even better.

What I like is the fact that contrary to SAGA you won't be committing your last Heartguard/Buccelarii, or whatever you want to call your elite units, in a desperate all or nothing charge against the enemy. In SAGA you either win or lose but in Dux B you'll lose even if you win.

Anyway, I will continue to play both systems will equal enthusiasm.

Isn't the historical time period/setting for SAGA later than DB is? I get the impression that SAGA is more of a late Dark Ages (think 1066, Hastings), but maybe it's just me.

Or at least post about AD 750 and hence into the Viking age in the British Isles.

Dux Britannarium is from the earlier part of the Dark Ages while SAGA is much later.

As mentioned in the book, the Sea Raider army can be used for Vikings. If you take Norman milites as Noble Riders then the rules could stretch a long way.

In an ideal world I would use these rules for a Fall of the West campaign and the only fudge I'd have to do is the stats for Sassanid elephants. I know the Sassanids didn't make it so far West, but they have to be there to balance the Eastern Empire. The way I see it at least!

The big difference as mentioned is time period. Dux takes place earlier than SAGA. As far as gameplay SAGA focuses more on the battleboard as its mechanic. Dux focuses on fate cards but also includes more leadership and morale.
So it depends on what you are looking for.

I have penned a set of house rules for SAGA that will make it a bit more "historical" than it is now. I have submitted them to Guy at WSS so we will see.

Thanks

Joe

Does Dux Britannarium (the Too Fat Lardies one) use the card activated system, with Big Men and others, like the WW1 and beyond rules?

Dux B is indeed card activated, but somewhat different from IABSM for example.

Any one tried DuxB in the later period? I mean 750AD to 1100AD.

Captain Coffin – the awesome Dalauppror blog has a bat rep using Dux Britannarium to fight a battle between Vikings and Anglo-Saxons: link

Hi Sackofmonkeys. Great link thanks alot.

Thanks for the nice comments about my blog:)

I acctually have a Dux Britanniarum AAR for Welsh vs. Vikings to: link

I think Dux Britanniarum have a very good campaign system, writen for Romano-British vs. Saxons but with some small changes it work good for our Anglo-Saxon vs Viking campaign to. (the only thing we changed in the acctual game rules are to allow Vikings to form shiled wall, BUT only if playing the battle scenario, not in the Raid scenarios)

Dux Brittaniarum vs SAGA… SAGA are faster and work better in club/tournamet gaming, SAGA are perfect to use to lure new people in to Dark Age gaming, fast and fun but it lack in moral system, it dosent realy matter if you ruch your elit in to a do or die attack, hope youknow what I mean.

Dux Brittaniarum take longer…or at least the times we have played it, but I think it give a better feel of, at least how I imagien, a Dark Age raid.

I will at least for now continue to play both games…or should I say all three games…

Dux Bellorum are not realy a semi-skirmish game like SAGA and Dux britanniarum, more like Basic Impetus/DBA etc. Realy nice rules to, work fine for the "Viking" age to in my mind.
Of cours you will find some AAR at my blog:)

link

Best regards Michael