"Dux Britanniarum by TFL Question" Topic
15 Posts
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Grandviewroad | 06 Jun 2013 9:53 a.m. PST |
I can't find anything in the rules that explicitly states that a Group fights a Combat at the end of a move to Contact (what we'd think of as a charge). Instead the rules say that Groups can Move or Fight a Round of Combat if they are already in Contact. It _seems_ like a movement into Contact results in a Combat, but a clarification and page ref would be great, thanks! Also, why can't thrown weapons cause kills? They only cause Shock. Bows can cause both Shock and Kills. Seems odd, as I've never thought of thrown weapons as hurled to cause disruption and disorganization, but I've heard of arrows fired for that effect. Seems reversed. |
Tin Soldier Man | 06 Jun 2013 10:04 p.m. PST |
Try the Lardies Yahoo Group. You'll get quick answers there. |
Stew art | 06 Jun 2013 10:07 p.m. PST |
yes, that is what happens. p. 45, Resolving the Combat section; first sentence; "once two opposing forces make contact the front two ranks
will fight." -Stew |
Grandviewroad | 07 Jun 2013 7:11 p.m. PST |
Tin Soldier – actually, responses to rules questions are poor. Everyone seems to love to make tons of posts there, pages and pages of cheery banter between pals / mates, but post something that asks a rules question
unanswered for days, falls 2-3 pages behind and is forgotten as they make yet another jest about "lard". Not impressed. Stew, close enough. Should be more explicit and at the start of the combat section (and mentioned in movement as well) but good enough to run with. How about this: Combat Results Chart: +3 Men killed [+3 Figures, actually]. "All groups withdraw a minimum of 6" facing the enemy, all formations are broken. If shock exceeds the number of men present, then add a further two points of Shock and the Group, and any Nobles with it, routs back facing away from the enemy a further 2d6 inches. The distance routed will depend on the amount of Shock on the Group." Can anyone explain this? - If the groups withdraw a minimum of 6", what's the max and how do you figure it? - HOW does the distance routed depend on the amount of Shock on the group? The last sentence contradicts the preceding sentence that says they rout back 2d6". Thanks. I'm planning to do a first time demo with my club. I'd like to get some of these basic rule questions figured out. |
CATenWolde | 08 Jun 2013 1:54 a.m. PST |
I actually agree with you about the TFL Yahoo group. After I bought Dux Brit I signed up for daily digests, but it quickly became obvious that discussion of any one game was subject to the rip tides of the group's current favorite topic. It might be a great group if you play many of the Lardy sets and have the time to integrate into the group spirit, but it's not very functional for the occasional user. I would love for them to move to a more modern forum format (say, like Pendraken uses) with folders divided into different subject matter. I think overall contribution would vastly improve. At any rate
about your questions. 1. I assume the "minimum 6 inches" distance simply means that if something was in the way (like another unit or building etc.) that you would withdraw more rather than less to clear it. It may also be a reference to the possibility that groups with excess shock would be obliged to withdraw further. 2. According to the rules on Excess Shock on page 54, "Groups with more Shock than men will retire 1" for each excess point of Shock for Elite troops, 2" for Warriors or 3" for Levy or Harassing troops." I read it this way: The defeated group always withdraws a minimum of 6 inches, and if it has excess shock then it withdraws a further 2d6 inches *in addition to* the normal amount it would normally withdraw due to having excess shock (as defined above). That's how I would do it – I'd be interested to see if I'm correct! ;) Cheers, Christopher |
WillieB | 08 Jun 2013 7:39 a.m. PST |
The text on the QPS is somewhat clearer. All groups retire 1'' for every point of shock- not excess shock! (minimum 6'') It could be that some of the groups initially have more than 6 shock after combat so they would retire further before eventually ( very probably!)adding the 2 extra shock and routing 2D6. Harassing troops (skirmishers) don't retreat since they don't fight close combat, they disperse = flee immediately.
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CATenWolde | 08 Jun 2013 10:01 a.m. PST |
Okay, so they retreat for shock first (minimum 6", possibly more depending on the amount of shock and unit quality), and then retreat another 2d6" if they rout. Simple when it's put like that! |
Grandviewroad | 08 Jun 2013 11:09 a.m. PST |
OK, so Levy with 5 shock on a full group of 6 retreat 15". If they had 6 shock, they'd retreat 18", add 2 shock and rout another 2d6". That correct? Still don't understand why the trusty javelin is a rubber missile, however. |
Stew art | 08 Jun 2013 1:49 p.m. PST |
i totally agree about the yahoo group. i'm sure it's full of helpful people but the format of a yahoo group makes it real hard. i've posted a few questions on there and got at least one response, and you can learn somethings by searching a dux game term and wadding through the responses, but it is cumbersome. in fact, Catenwolde might of been the response! the main issue is that dux brit is mixed bag. overall it's a fun rule set with some cool stuff and ideas and good for club / friendly play. i'm planning on using it at conventions myself. BUUUUT, there are rules / situations that are maddeningly vague or just not explained at all. explicit rules are hard to find. your left to work it out for yourself, so you're going to get a lot of "we did it this way.." responses. so routing, i do remember seeing this in the yahoo group, and i think it plays like this, and of course this is how we did it
. first off, remember that for groups to 'rout' their side of the combat must loose by the +3 result, otherwise it's not a rout. so lets say you have 2 groups of levy in a shieldwall that loose by 3. lets say again that group 1 took all the casualties so has 3 men left and 3 shock. group 2 will have 6 men left and 7 shock. the noble is behind the formation. since it's a rout both groups move back 6". now group 2 has 6 men and 7 shock so retreats a further 3" for being levy with 1 access shock. group 1 however, has more shock than men so we add 2 shock (for 5 total, and now flees back a further 2d6 inches facing away from the enemy. we play that the noble can choose which group to be with as he was attached to the formation not a group. though if he was in combat he would be attached to one of the groups and would also rout if the group he was attached to routed. the victorious groups now roll for pursuit as described on p.48. now lets say that the group that is facing away gets caught. you think it should be a flank attack because they are hit in the rear, but flank/rear attacks are only possible when playing a carpe diem card. so we ruled that this is now a totally new combat (though the attacker is rolling double dice for fighting routed troops) so even if there was a CD card played in the previous combat it doesn't count. both players get to/need to play fate cards. i hope that helped and like i said, that is just how we did it. -Stew |
WillieB | 08 Jun 2013 2:39 p.m. PST |
OK, so Levy with 5 shock on a full group of 6 retreat 15". If they had 6 shock, they'd retreat 18", add 2 shock and rout another 2d6". That correct? Still don't understand why the trusty javelin is a rubber missile, however. Almost It is almost impossible that a full group of 6 would retreat under these circumstance since these are only achieved after a 3 kill difference. Let's assume two groups ( a formation)loses 4 men (2 each from each group) and both also get 2 shock. The enemy suffers only 1 loss hence a 3 kill difference. Both levy groups (it's no longer a formation now) have to retire 6 inches. Since they only have 2 shock each they don't have to retire/rout any further. Same situation but the levy groups get 5 shock and 4 shock respectively. Both still have to retire 6 inches but the group with 5 shock now has EXCESS shock ( 4 figures & 5 shock) so they get an additional 2 shock and rout a further 2D6 inches. Disregard the excess shock/class table in this case. It's already bad enough as it is.
Don't forget that excess shock and the subsequent retiring/ routing only applies to the losing side of a combat. The opposing Saxon groups might well have more excess shock but they won the combat and will stay in place or pursue.
The poor levies now have 7 shock which is very close to 'losing the amphora' and routing off the table. The group with 4 figures and 4 shock has no excess shock and remains in place after retreating the initial 6 inches. If the combat gave both levy groups excess shock, obviously both would retire 6 inches get 2 additional shock and rout 2 D6 inches further. If any of the groups would get double excess shock ( 8 for 4 men in this case) they would simply rout off the table at 3D6 inch per turn. If a pursuing group would make contact with a routing unit they immediately fight a round of combat but their attack dice are doubled. Not a flank or rear attack but almost equally devastating since the routing unit probably hasn't many men capable of fighting left. |
WillieB | 08 Jun 2013 2:55 p.m. PST |
Regarding javelins and other thrown weapons being unable to make a kill. You would have to ask the game designer but is is possible that thrown weapons are considered more as 'hindrance' things than actually killing weapons. I believe Roman pila and plombata were meant to stick in shields and thus hinder the defender. If that is the case causing shock really portays this nicely since it slows down the enemy formation, and keeps men from fighting back. 1 man out per 2 shock. Bows in that particular era were more of a short-range direct fire weapon and mostly used by hunters and such. No Welsh or English longbows yet. Could that perhaps be the explanation? |
Joe Legan | 10 Jun 2013 12:53 p.m. PST |
I actually like the group but agree questions are either answered quickly or not at all. While not a great answer the best solution currently is to keep posting them until they "stick". No one is being rude on purpose; the conversation just flows. I can't help with your questions here as I don't play Dux. I play my hown grown variant of SAGA. Cheers Joe |
Dexter Ward | 11 Jun 2013 6:34 a.m. PST |
Thrown weapons causing only shock is pretty realistic. Troops with shields are pretty immune to most missile weapons, but such weapons will certainly cause disruption, might disable some shields, and may cause a few wounds. |
toofatlardies | 11 Jun 2013 8:54 a.m. PST |
I do apologies for not noticing this question here. I did actually answer this question in some detail on the TooFatLardies Yahoo Group a couple of days ago. I had been away at the Lardy Games day run by the Wyvern Wargamers, hence my taking a couple of days to answer. I certainly hope that indicates that responses on the Yahoo Group are far from poor, I am just not omnipresent. Rich |
Stew art | 11 Jun 2013 11:11 a.m. PST |
I jsut realised that my answer was slightly incorrect, as my group 2 also has excess shock and should be routing, it should read, "group 2 with 6 guys left has 6 shock, so withdraws 6 inches and then stays put. this group is not routing as it does not have access shock." my bad, i'm assuming no one pointed it out due to politeness. |
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