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De Bellis Renationis

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Phillius Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Mar 2010 10:56 p.m. PST

First up, let me explain, so as we don't get lost in a swathe of "run a mile" or "there are plenty of others" answers.
I play DBR because it is the only pike and shot era set of rules played, by anyone, within any form of travelling distance from where I live. And it is played reasonably widely. It is not my first choice, but I have come to accept it.

Now, on to my question. And it involves the infantry category Shot(F), or shot fast. In the rules they are defined as – "Armed with matchlock or firelock musket but at close range firing by salvo and immediately charging instead of firing continuously by circulating ranks, such as Gustavus' Swedes, Turkish janissaries and Scots lacking sufficient ammunition."

In the associated army lists, this troop type is used to define the standard musket armed soldier of half the European nations from about mid 17th century on. As well of course, as Gustavus' Swedes, the Weimarians, later TYW French, and countless others (Montrose Irish, Portugese in India and Africa, etc.).

Now, bearing in mind the above listed historical counterparts, what is the opinion of the gathered worthies on this board, as to the accuracy of the definition of Shot (F) in DBR?

I think it is a complete misnomer. It is representative of some activity, but not representative of the "complete" troop type. Opinions please..


gbowen20 Mar 2010 12:34 a.m. PST

My rulebook is not handy but my opinion follows. The DBR lists were designed for 1.1. Version 2.0 changed some of the properties of shot F and S but the lists were never revised. In a friendly game you might change some shot F to O or S and adapt the points accordingly

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2010 8:23 a.m. PST

Many European armies from the mid 17th century are Shot Ordinary, and then upgraded to Superior with the introduction of muskets and bayonets. Those, such as France and Sweden who kept the Shot (F) had aggressive doctrines where the shot moved quickly to support the pikes in a charge. Many others, in non-European settings lacked supplies to sustain continuous fire.

This forum, I suspect, lacks DBR experts who reside in the DBR Yahoo group which is very active and would love to discuss this topic. I will post it for you, so answers will appear as you join.

Phillius Sponsoring Member of TMP20 Mar 2010 11:35 a.m. PST

Thanks Bob. My intention was to post on the DBR group, but I wanted the opinions of any interested parties here as well.

BrianNZ21 Mar 2010 12:43 a.m. PST

Phillius the IWF have adopted 'Kiwi Points' for the World Champs, this points system makes Sh(F) cheaper and Sh(S) dearer, which helps to even things out a little. We here in New Zealand use 'Kiwi Points' for larger games 300 500 points and 'Book Points' for Condensed Scale games of 100 points. At the moment 110 points is our standard here in my Christchurch Club.
You will find that Condensed Scale games give Sh(F) and Pi(F) a bit of a boost as only pike get a supporting rear rank.
I suggest that you try a game using the Condensed Scale version of DBR, they are incorporated within the Rules.
There are rumours of a new version of the DBR rules being published sometime in the future.

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